Probably just an extra length of vent pipe, the smaller tank probably isn't as tall so it needs extra pipe for venting.

The whole painful part is the cost, average changeout around here is 400 plus tank cost. And extra if it needs upgrade (new gasline connection, a pan, drainline, etc.)
If its basically a swap, ive done it in an hour no sweat.

Hearing of 800-$1000 labor costs isnt too unusual when modifying to modern code.



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Well, I didn't get a breakdown on the estimate but if my research on the cost of the heater is correct, the labor for the swap in my case is about $1500 (part of that is adding a code-mandated expansion tank). I got a couple of other quotes and they're pretty close. As dumb as paying that much is, I know my limitations and it's definitely better than me attempting to to do it myself.

Yeah, its definitely better than coming home to a hole in the roof and your neighbor has your tank on the roof of his car.


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Is the added cost of installing the 50 gallon tank more than the cost of keeping that extra 25 gallons of water hot for 10 years?

Probably not. They place some value on being less likely to run out of hot water in certain uncommon circumstances (with the 75 gal), but even that value probably isn't enough.

Kitchen remodel is finally done.

For those of you who don't recall how ugly it was before (dat pine!), here are the photos from the real estate listing:







These pics are after I re-did the cabinets, but with the original floors, counters, backsplash, and sink. Sorry, I don't have the fancy wide-angle lens the real estate agent used, but trust me, it's the same size it used to be.





And here it is now, with new tile (floor and backsplash), leather-finish granite counters, and new sink. Oh, and the stupid scalloping removed.

Tankless water heater FTW

I might have asked this exact same question previously, but now I've got firmer answer from someone I'm working with in real life, so wanted to re-ask.

I live in Chicago, in a bungalow. Upstairs is vacant attic, and possibly the prior owners extended the plumbing main line up into the space when they added a downstairs bathroom. Downstairs there is a small finished space. Probably something like 13x13 room, with a bathroom around 7x9.

We have been given two floor plans for the basement that we are interested in. One involves reconfiguring the bathroom roughly in place, maybe moving things a few feet. The other involves moving it across the floor plan. We asked our architect if there were a significant price difference between the two options, and she said that basically, no. A couple thousand maybe. She estimates that the price of "a bathroom" in the basement (single sink, simple shower + bath, and toilet, is about $60k.

Similarly, when discussing plans for upstairs, which is currently entirely unfinished, she estimates the cost of a small bathroom (roughly the same size) at $60k.

When I look around the internet at estimator sites, they say that a good bathroom can generally be had in the $20k-$25k range. I'm having a really hard time figure out what one could do to get to $60k. Something like: simple fixtures, black and white hexagon tiles, subway tiles, plumbing, electrical, venting, and walls?

What am I missing?

I guess the market demand is high, so labor costs are the majority of that cost.

A very nice remodel in my area (Oklahoma) would be in the 20k area for a 5x8 bath, a normal remodel with the basics could be 9k or so if you really watch the budget.

I also think the prices might drop due to the economy going to **** now.

I definitely can't see the labor cost going up, but who knows?

In any case, 60k does sound extremely high unless you're doing high end products, but ive got no real handle on the bathroom market right now.

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For a 60k basic bathroom, I'm sure it's no problem to put the toilet wherever you damn well please. I can only assume she's hot, and you're going to get to live out some fantasy version of a porno where she gets down on her knees while showing you the finished product.

we spent $22k on two bathrooms. $10k of which was labor.

it seems like it would have been really hard to spend $20k per bath if you are buying **** from home depot or lowes.

Had a contractor put a bathroom in my basement with tile floor, shower/tub combo, toilet and sink for 6k CAD. Cost 2k extra on top of that to bring the plumbing and break the concrete floor to bring drains over beforehand.

In fact I had the whole basement finished with bar, laundry room, exercise area and the bathroom (750sqft total) for roughly 35k CAD. Very good workmanship and insulation/subflooring etc. LOL 60k.

22k on an internet estimator site seems low if it includes new walls, etc. and is not just a remodel. 60K seems loltastically high.

We had a bathroom job done with all the standard remodel stuff plus one major wall (about 12ft long) removed, another wall built (about the same size) to make a hallway, as well as a little WC room built around the toilet, and plumbing run about 15 feet to move the sinks and add a garden tub at one end. You can see before and after pics in post 4199 ITT. That ran us $40K and included a little extra tile work to update two other bathrooms.

We had one contractor bid it at $60K, but I think they just didn't really want the job much. Definitely shows the need to get multiple bids, though.

It sounds like you have done a bit of checking but I would keep searching and get estimates from several construction companies. I did some searching myself and found one company in Chicago that would charge 40k to 65k for a high end master bath. For simple bathrooms where no plumbing moves you should be able to do for under 10k. I am a plumber and the most difficult aspect would be cutting the floor and moving drainwork. That can take time and run up labor costs. If you keep everything where it is at you can still update drains but save money in labor.

If you do add a bathroom you have to make sure your water service can handle the new fixtures. If you have an undersized line coming to the house and add more plumbing you will get less flow obviously. It seems like Chicago is a bit cheaper than here in Seattle so you should be able to find some reasonable prices.

Thanks for the replies, everyone. Always appreciate several people confirming my priors.

I want to be clear -- the person giving that estimate is my architect, who gets a % on construction but not a large one. Shopping for prices amongst contractors hasn't started yet. I was hoping to have her give me a sharp price on things like this, as frankly at $20k I'd probably add a second bath upstairs. At $60k, no way. So I wanted these prices so I could choose a floor plan accurately.

But now I feel like I have to talk to some GCs before I can choose a floor plan, which kind of sucks.

grunching,

This is where I ask the architect for a rough breakdown and get ready for some comedy.

120k for two bathrooms in a bungalow is redonkulous.

Don't get me started on architects, lol.

Some of them are like doctors, with a God complex.

It seems if a sub contractor tells them the problems with their design and why it won't work or can be accomplished easier or with less expense, it is not taken seriously.

We usually had to tell the builder and he would relay the information to them in order to get them to consider an alternative.



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Here's a relevant block from our most recent email:

This would seem to imply that non-fixture materials, including walls/door/etc and of course tiling, plus electrical and other labor is ... something around $50k in her mind. My guesstimate of things seems in line with what other posters have posted here, that to get to $60k with sort of routine materials would imply something on the order of $45k-$50k of labor, which is ... insane.

I really like this architect, who is known as a bungalow specialist and to have done a number of really nice jobs on reasonable budget. But I feel from earlier conversations that she's estimating very high in order to never have the client say "but you said it would be less" down the line. But for me it's more important to know a realistic estimate in order to choose the correct floor plan!

I assume the right next step is the suggested: ask her to give a breakdown of where $60k goes.

If you like the architect ask her how much she would charge for design and plans and you finding your own contractor.

She's not the GC and doesn't choose the GC.

The discrepancy in price is meaningful to me. I can't move forward to next round of revisions to plans and higher resolution plans without making some decisions, including how many bathrooms. An extra $80k-$100k for 2 bathrooms on the 2nd floor vs roughly what you're all saying it should cost is a huge change in pricing that impacts all other decisions I make about the house. I don't want to spend whatever it takes to achieve the perfect floor plan. I want to have a floor plan I like a lot, that fits the budget I've allocated to this project.

IE, I believe I need to know what the bathrooms actually cost before I can take the next steps in design work.

So call in three GC's, have them look at the sketches and give you an estimate on the different choices. Pretty easy. Most GCs are fine bidding based on sketches and looking at the house, and won't tell you "I can't bid without detailed plans." They might say that their estimate is not final till they see the plans, but you can at least get a much closer ballpark.

I discovered that some GCs are just agencies that bid a job, then give it to a smaller company that pays them a percentage, so I'd stay away from those if I were you. Those smaller companies will generally split the difference with you if you go direct.

60k to do a simple bathroom?!?!

glad i can do this **** myself. that is hella expensive.

only thing i can add is my buddy just had his master redone, he told me how much it cost, i forget the actual number, but it was in the 20s. their master is bigger than 9x7 and everything was upgraded.

i'd wait 1-3 months for the economy to tank further. no one will be doing home renovations by then, contractors will be low balling each other just to get their people working.

edit: and obv make sure you get multiple quotes. then you can negotiate with them. bad economies are terrible times to be in the home renovation game.

It all depends on where you live and to what the finishes are for the bathroom or any room actually. Obviously posters here live in different areas of the country and the world and their costs are not going to be the same as yours. That is why the feedback on here is going to have limited value. You really need to talk to local contractors. I just quit my job working for a local plumbing contractor here in Seattle. Before I left the owner raised the labor rate to $320 an hour. So I could you an idea of how much time a given project would take but the cost depends on where you live and what you want for fixtures, finishes,etc.

We did the plumbing for 10 x 10 kitchen remodel where the total cost of the project was over $300,000. The plumbing wasn't that expensive but they spent over $100,000 on cabinets.

this is the suggestion you should follow.

Facebook has decided that I need to be served ads for the Worx robotic lawnmower, the Landroid. I am not currently in need of its services, but it seems kinda cool. Would be interested in a trip report if anyone picks one up.