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The great breastfeeding debate, Part XVII The great breastfeeding debate, Part XVII

11-18-2011 , 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gizmo
I was asking because I recently was told that spelling something as "smth" was a Russian thing. As I said, it was completely unrelated to the argument at hand.

But while we're on the subject, yes I am in possession in ovaries, why do you ask?
No. Those ovaries don't mean much tho, cuz u said u don't want no kids, rite?
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11-18-2011 , 10:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT RJ
No, YOU'RE going to think it's a little weird. I'm going to think it's a baby that wants to be fed and then not think about it again, cause it's not my kid.
yes, just me.
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11-18-2011 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsman
Ad hominem attacks are such a lazy way to avoid responding to valid points made. Notice that cres used the multi-gender parent noun numerous times to get his point across. I suppose then if we follow your line of reasoning that he must be a misandrist as well.
I think any person of any reasonable intelligence can look at cres's posts and the language he used and come away thinking he's got some real issues with women. Very fair assumption.

ATA,

The point is people used to freak out over stupid **** that didn't mater and used words like "garish" to describe something as mundane as using the wrong drinking fountain.

Even granting that there's valid reasons for you to be more disturbed by public breast feeding- the damage done to your psyche by being forced to witness this is hardly enough to ask a mother to hide herself.

Letting things that simply make you uncomfortable with no other meaningful impact get in the way of other people's needs just seems awfully ****ty to me.
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11-18-2011 , 10:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtThe Aquarium
To which an adult, who can predict with great accuracy at what times the needs will occur, responds to.
Not having a baby I'll have to defer to those that do but my understanding is that babies need to nurse quite frequently so requiring that a mother remove herself from a public space in anticipation of the baby demanding to be fed would make it impossible to function.
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11-18-2011 , 10:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Henry17
Not having a baby I'll have to defer to those that do but my understanding is that babies need to nurse quite frequently so requiring that a mother remove herself from a public space in anticipation of the baby demanding to be fed would make it impossible to function.
hence the use of a blanket. that's all people are asking
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11-18-2011 , 10:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
I think any person of any reasonable intelligence can look at cres's posts and the language he used and come away thinking he's got some real issues with women. Very fair assumption.

ATA,

The point is people used to freak out over stupid **** that didn't mater and used words like "garish" to describe something as mundane as using the wrong drinking fountain.

Even granting that there's valid reasons for you to be more disturbed by public breast feeding- the damage done to your psyche by being forced to witness this is hardly enough to ask a mother to hide herself.

Letting things that simply make you uncomfortable with no other meaningful impact get in the way of other people's needs just seems awfully ****ty to me.
But Dids, I have already said I don't care about public breastfeeding.

The point is that according to that logic people can wack off in public. It simply makes one uncomfortable and doesn't really get in the way of other people's needs. No other meaningful impact is kinda vague.
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11-18-2011 , 10:23 PM
Anarchist,

Pongo's explained why she doesn't use a blanket, some reasons are iffy (too much to carry), some seem very valid (needs to see the kid latch on, kid doesn't like it). If we grant that there's valid reasons why she wouldn't use a blanket- why does your need not to be uncomfortable outweigh that?
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11-18-2011 , 10:23 PM
I agree with henry! It's a miracle!

But seriously, if I limited my visits out of the home to times when the baby wouldn't need to eat I wouldn't leave my house ever. And that would suck. Some babies fall into a schedule more readily than others, some eat less often. Mine has no schedule and eats all the time, so I feed him in public.
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11-18-2011 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by divides_by_zero
Bunch of prudes in this thread.

You know what else is indecent? Gay men kissing in public spaces. Seriously, why don't they just use a blanket. It takes like two seconds. Everyone's uncomfortable and they can still kiss and everything, that's fine, but why do they gotta be so militant about being able to kiss in public and not be harassed?

Also wtf is up with black people wanting to be able to use the same water fountains? It's just offensive. The vast majority of people find it so and it's not THAT hard to walk the extra 20 feet or so to the coloreds-only faucet.

And those ****ing women in the middle east - as if anyone would want to see their whore faces. I mean, it's just easier to cover up and go along with societal norms, it's just a ****ing headdress.

Anybody arguing that pongo should cover herself because "it's not that much harder" or "not that uncomfortable" sounds just as dumb as those statements above. She's not shoving boobs in anyone's face. I've never seen a breastfeeding woman that has. So much internet posturing in this thread. Any rational adult wouldn't give two ****s about this.
I'm not a huge fan of public displays of affection, gay, straight, or otherwise. You are right, keep that kind of crap in private.
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11-18-2011 , 10:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
Anarchist,

Pongo's explained why she doesn't use a blanket, some reasons are iffy (too much to carry), some seem very valid (needs to see the kid latch on, kid doesn't like it). If we grant that there's valid reasons why she wouldn't use a blanket- why does your need not to be uncomfortable outweigh that?
why do 95% of other people use one then? probably because they understand societal norms. pongo's reason "it's too heavy" was just a cover (lolpun) for her other terrible reasons ("it's natural" and "it's legal"). she can keep doing whatever the hell she wants, but she shouldn't be all shocked people think it's rude
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11-18-2011 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by adsman
Ad hominem attacks are such a lazy way to avoid responding to valid points made. Notice that cres used the multi-gender parent noun numerous times to get his point across. I suppose then if we follow your line of reasoning that he must be a misandrist as well.
Actually he used the word parent once, but he refered to Pongo specifically multiple times and obviously referred to women as well.
Notice this one gem for example:

Quote:
Eating in a restaurant while a woman crows, (your cooing is a shrill noise to others), is the infliction you cause.
Regardless, his misogyny doesn't really need much of a response because that is how ridiculous it is.
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11-18-2011 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtThe Aquarium
But Dids, I have already said I don't care about public breastfeeding.

The point is that according to that logic people can wack off in public. It simply makes one uncomfortable and doesn't really get in the way of other people's needs. No other meaningful impact is kinda vague.
If wacking off in public was just wacking off in public- frankly I think people shouldn't care about that either.

This argument breaks down because somebody masturbating in public is clearly demonstrating and ignorance and/or disregard for 1- the law 2- norms to a much, much, much, greater extent than public breastfeeding. Potentially to a degree that implies actions that will impact other people are likely.
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11-18-2011 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
people can look away
Correct.

Quote:
but people can also look away if a random dude is picking his nose or shoving his hand down his pants. you can always "look away," but that doesn't mean what the person is doing isn't inconsiderate
Right, but no one would accuse the guy of militant nose picking or ask him if he would like it if they started jerking it into his dinner, as has been done here.

If a woman parks herself on a bench at the mall and sneaks her baby's head into her shirt, she does so with the knowledge that most of the people around won't notice, others won't care, others will nod supportively, and still others will silently object. Which contingent is the arbiter of what is or isn't considerate and who has the valid claim to accommodation?
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11-18-2011 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pongo
I agree with henry! It's a miracle!

But seriously, if I limited my visits out of the home to times when the baby wouldn't need to eat I wouldn't leave my house ever. And that would suck. Some babies fall into a schedule more readily than others, some eat less often. Mine has no schedule and eats all the time, so I feed him in public.
That's perfectly fine. But you shouldn't feel affronted if people look at you with a "um, y u no go in private?" eye or a shopkeeper politely asks you to move to a private area.
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11-18-2011 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
why do 95% of other people use one then? probably because they understand societal norms. pongo's reason "it's too heavy" was just a cover (lolpun) for her other terrible reasons ("it's natural" and "it's legal"). she can keep doing whatever the hell she wants, but she shouldn't be all shocked people think it's rude
Clearly pongo's less inclined to let social norms with which she disagrees affect her decision making. Clearly she's not unaware that this is a problem for some people. She just doesn't care, and that's fine. It's not her problem that you don't like it. That doesn't turn her chosen method of breast feeding into "militant breastfeeding" agenda or any of the really weird accusations that have been made in this thread.
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11-18-2011 , 10:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
why do 95% of other people use one then? probably because they understand societal norms. pongo's reason "it's too heavy" was just a cover (lolpun) for her other terrible reasons ("it's natural" and "it's legal"). she can keep doing whatever the hell she wants, but she shouldn't be all shocked people think it's rude
Where do you get this 95% figure? It's certainly not true in my experience.

Also, most women who use a cover do it for their OWN comfort, not others', so it's kind of beside the point.
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11-18-2011 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
If wacking off in public was just wacking off in public- frankly I think people shouldn't care about that either.

This argument breaks down because somebody masturbating in public is clearly demonstrating and ignorance and/or disregard for 1- the law 2- norms to a much, much, much, greater extent than public breastfeeding. Potentially to a degree that implies actions that will impact other people are likely.
Ok, but you didn't include the "law" in your earlier statement. And, the degree to which someone will likely be offended if either activity is done in public is high. Obv higher for masturbation, ldo.
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11-18-2011 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtThe Aquarium
No. Those ovaries don't mean much tho, cuz u said u don't want no kids, rite?
I don't plan on giving birth to any kids. Adoption is a strong option for us, though... one day. Maybe.
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11-18-2011 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
Clearly pongo's less inclined to let social norms with which she disagrees affect her decision making. Clearly she's not unaware that this is a problem for some people. She just doesn't care, and that's fine. It's not her problem that you don't like it. That doesn't turn her chosen method of breast feeding into "militant breastfeeding" agenda or any of the really weird accusations that have been made in this thread.
except i never said that

this started with her saying "guys it's natural and i don't care what you think it's my right and it's legal, and if you don't like it who cares"

and ALL i said was that that attitude is absurd. that's it.
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11-18-2011 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtThe Aquarium
That's perfectly fine. But you shouldn't feel affronted if people look at you with a "um, y u no go in private?" eye or a shopkeeper politely asks you to move to a private area.
As long as I can politely refuse, I'm probably okay. Insisting I leave, and I'll make a stink.
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11-18-2011 , 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pongo
Where do you get this 95% figure? It's certainly not true in my experience.

Also, most women who use a cover do it for their OWN comfort, not others', so it's kind of beside the point.
Well, they probably also factor in the side benefit of discretion that a cover affords. Not everyone only thinks of themselves.
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11-18-2011 , 10:32 PM
conclusions:

public breastfeeding is somewhere between eating a snickers and masturbation on the scale of appropriateness

what most people take issue with is the complete disregard for other people on the matter just because you dont think its a big deal

it is possible for ATA to make good posts
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11-18-2011 , 10:33 PM
Holy ****balls now this is an Hdog one seven thread? We could be on our way to OOT greatness! And it all started with one little Cleveland Slappy sucking on a titty.
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11-18-2011 , 10:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtThe Aquarium
Well, they probably also factor in the side benefit of discretion that a cover affords. Not everyone only thinks of themselves.
Pongo really isn't thinking just for herself, though. I would argue she's more thinking about someone else.
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11-18-2011 , 10:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dids
The degree to which people like ATA have missed deebz's point really helps make deebz's point.

Also people freaking out over the blanket thing seem to have missed that it's also about the fact that the kid doesn't like it- and frankly- I'm way more concerned with the needs and wants of the kid than people's delicate sensibilities.
comparing the right to breastfeed to the struggle for civil rights for homosexuals, Blacks and women was asinine. Akin to the baby feeding/eating a snickers comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
hence the use of a blanket. that's all people are asking
if I'm not mistaken, this is where we're actually at wrt to the subject, neanderthals aside. at this point it's impossible to tell whether those arguing in favor are simply responding to the neanderthals, or if they honestly believe that asking women who are breastfeeding to "expose" themselves discreetly or cover up with a blanket is equivalent to wishing we were back in the 50's when life in America was good and everyone knew their place.
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