Good post snaggle, 100% agree. People bitching over this is really weird, especially at a poker forum, ok I could understand people not having a clue if this was a ****ing WOW forum or smth, but a poker forum, and you guys think its ok to just get out of legit bets without paying is mind blowing. And you also somehow makes OP the villain here, insane.

Gizmo is the nut low ITT.

Can people stop mentioning what a douche OP is or is being. He isn't with regards to the bet and anything else is not even relevant to the discussion.

The large majority of posters in OOT are losing poker players who gave it up a long time ago. If this thread was posted in the high stakes NL forum, you would be getting a much different response.

Good point.

So what kind of wedding present is the right line here? I think $25K sounds about right to me...

I don't even know what the OP is asking. Even if this board thought OP was completely in the right, it doesn't make one bit of difference.

The crux of the matter is that OP's friend is not going to pay the 25k so OP should think about whether he is willing to remain friends. That seems to me to be a rather personal decision.

And if the people in HSNL couldn't figure out that despite clearly winning the bet and being owned the money- the OP is still a raging douche, that probably says a few things about HSNL and I'd much rather spend time with the folks in OOT than a bunch of honorable degens who would gleefully extort their close friends for profit (I don't actually think HSNL is that way at all really and suspect that the consensus would be that the OP's an ass in that hypothetical thread. This is because the OP is clearly an ass).

95% of people here agree that OP should get paid, not sure why you are being so defensive and insulting about that.

That's a boring debate for a thread, so people have moved on to further discuss the scenario. That's how the internet works.

Only read the first few pages.

If the story is accurately portrayed in OP the bet is good. Don't really get the hate for OP. Other than that who is dumb enough to make bets for amounts of money that you both know can never be paid for when the bet gets decided. Dont make big bets personal.

You should either let your friend go from the bet and try to repair your friendship if you're never going to hold a grudge or move on and drop them.

I'm not speaking to whether or not OP is a douche, but as to whether or not he is entitled to 25k.

...op is clearly a douche

From what ive read skimming trough the thread its been more like "be happy if you get anything you greedy douche ****"

That does not = isn't owed money (at least in my mind, I don't want to speak for others)

Its people being realistic and understanding the logic of bets of this nature and size often not getting paid.

gizmo you were spot on with your lolwomen comment. you come off as a way bigger douche itt than op.

also, people saying friend cant pay off op without his wife finding out the full story are way wrong, so easy to:

1. if he pays off in small enough increments (few hundred/month) she'll surely never notice.

2. he can easily make up some random bet that had sick odds that he lost on (ie friend gave op 50:1 during preseason last year that green bay would beat pitt in the super bowl). may start a fight but w/e.

3. or he can easily tell the "truth" and leave out some details (ie we made this stupid bet a week after we met, we were joking around and shook on it and it became a serious bet, obviously dont say we made the bet cuz you were fat and thought there was no chance of marriage). will most definitely start a fight b/c lolwomen but shell get over it.

I don't know about that. Anybody with a history of prop betting knows that welching is a constant risk, and one not worth getting riled up about. Especially among the "normal" non-gambling population.

Its pretty clear 25k bets were not the norm for this pair of friends. The likelihood of it ever being paid was zero right from the get-go, and OP is a clown for ever thinking otherwise.

Then you're arguing against a thing few people are saying in this thread.

lol, you are furious. also wrong imo

legally binding? lolol

payment plan is the only reasonable option

Most posters ITT agree with you.

Most posters ITT agree with you.

I think this is where myself, and others, disagree with you. I think your perspective may be skewed somewhat because you roll with people who have a good amount of money, are usually liquid, and are used to making higher stakes prop bets and settling up.

The OP's friend makes $50k a year. After taxes, the size of the prop bet payout is pretty close to the size of his annual take home. I think the fact that it didn't even occur to these knuckleheads to let OP's friend buy himself out of the bet (obviously he knew he was going to propose at some point) - I think this says volumes about OP and his group of friends - they are likely just casual gamblers who occasionally throw down a big sports bet - but otherwise are "normals". So I think it's very fair to apply "normal person" standards here for the most part, and just try to be reasonable. (I think OP is trying to do this by the way, it's just he's also a douchebag.)

I think it's clear OP is envious of his friend's newfound wealth - usually broke people are jealous of wealthy people. But I basically agree with you - jealousy isn't a big issue in this instance.

Again, for a guy who makes $50k a year, I'm assuming you're wrong here.

I think that's a good plan - in fact, I think OP was basically going to do this.

Agreed. First, never make prop bets where you could be in way over your head and never be able to afford - especially true with good friends, amirite? Second, he should have immediately offered to handle this in the right way, but he didn't - lol camping trip. However, this is the kind of person OP is both friends with and makes prop bets with. That's his bad, and OP should adjust his expectations knowing these 2 salient facts.

I mentioned this above, but think it's worth restating: if OP were not broke, this wouldn't be a thread. He would just let it slide, or calmly bring it up after the wedding and hope to work something out. But OP is broke - he has $12k in debt - and the fact that he sees a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow has him acting in a fairly douchey manner.

Personally - when I make bets with friends - it's between me and my buddy. I'm not dragging his f'in wife into the ******ation. But the OP is very desperate to get unstuck in life, so he's focusing on all the wealth his buddy's wife is bringing to the table. Again, I think that's pathetic, but hey, to each his own.

The difference is the large amount of money involved here over such a ridiculous prop bet. OOT views this as unreasonable because they can't understand making such a large bet over something so silly. Lower the amount to $5 at 50:1 and see how many people change their opinion.

My impression was the majority of the posters calling OP a douche did so because they think it is ridiculous to expect 25k and that the fishing trip is a great gesture. I disagree with this and think OP is clearly entited to 25k, but what makes him a douche is the way he's going about collecting the money. Is this not correct?

This is a more succinct way of basically saying what I noted in the above post.

OP's friend is supposed to be an adult though, he should have understood that betting 25k here was not a joke.

also i'd guarantee he'd have collected his 500 if he had won. the only reason OP is a douche is for calling people itt pussies and for being dumb enough to make a lose-lose bet in the first place (either he loses $500 or wins 25k but pisses off friend)

No - that is not correct at all. I'm sure many OOT'ers have made large-sized ridiculous prop bets with good friends on "silly" topics. I have 3 going right now involving topics such as "how many dates it will take to bang her" and a classic weight loss prop.

The reason it's "unreasonable" is because OP's buddy makes only $50k a year. And OP is a clown for thinking that he'd ever get paid out that much (provided he wants to stay friends with the guy). If this were purely about the bet, he could take mjkidd's advice and sell it to a bookie.

Of course - but OP's friend is also a douchebag and a weasel. I don't know - maybe the lesson here is OP should find better friends who are not both poor and weasels, and make prop bets with them instead.

Wow
2p2 have some of the lowest ppl I have ever seen.
Why do you even call someone a "friend"?

Also, when would you lose the bet? When he dies?

nah i think op should just stop making bets if he can't enforce them in the first place

hey, maybe you should try reading the thread!