I'm sorry, but you have no idea what you're talking about. There is no doubt that a fair number of people, most of them young, would immediately volunteer for a challenge trial. That isn't the barrier to conducting a challenge trial in USA#9; instead, it's that such trials require FDA approval, and the FDA regards challenge trials as unethical in circumstances where there is no cure for the underlying condition.

To your stupid anecdotal point: I've already volunteered.

https://1daysooner.org/

For some reason, I found "Dan Marino" to be quite funny.

Vill,

There are also a fair number of people, like myself, who view C-19 as being very serious -- and its seriousness is precisely why we should pull out all the stops in trying to find a vaccine that works. The issue with challenge trials is that it's quite likely that some number of people who volunteer to get infected will die. In my own view, that trades in a utilitarian way against the thousand people a day that are currently dying. I understand the ethical quagmire this idea presents, but it seems to me there should not be an open-and-shut prohibition on challenge trials.

YF, HT

Howard,

I agree that adding in a limited challenge trial would have been wise and I'm honestly unclear exactly why it wasn't done. Lots of leading epidemiologists were calling for it, including Lipsitch and you would think that the Trump administration would have been pushing hard for it. I'm not clear how it played out politically. Do you know if the FDA stood strong against administration pressure to do challenge trials or if there really wasn't any political push at all?

The problem with a challenge trial in my view is that you could really only do it with younger and healthier subjects, whose risk is relatively low. Unfortunately, it is quite possible for a vaccine to be pretty effective for younger adults and ineffective for older adults, so perhaps the theory was that a full-scale test would be required in any event -- in which case it would be difficult to justify the increased risk for the subjects of the challenge trial.

I didn't hear anything from the administration about it, although I thought the administration's communications on its strategy were mostly incoherent. I do remember reading that an FDA administrator said something like "we don't have a hard rule against challenge trials but we'll take each trial application as it comes." Historically, I understand that the FDA has not approved challenge trials where the disease presents the risk of death to participants, but I've not scrubbed the history with any care and may be wrong.

If we had an effective vaccine for the young, that would go a looooooong way to reducing R. Perhaps it's politically impossible to approve a vaccine to be used only by certain age groups, and there may well be other problems with a challenge trial I'm not seeing. But I think that challenge trials are a potentially viable and potentially effective strategy that we've largely ignored.

I sometimes forget just how good that show is.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/29/coro...arch-says.html

New variant is spreading in Europe. Hopefully this one is less severe but there is no evidence either way at this point.

lolfilthy.... but this language is quite racist. i'm sure you don't intend racism. but this language is hurtful to a large group of people who it erases.

sorry for the political derail. but i think a lot of people use these words and don't realize it's hurtful

An NFL player's experience with COVID. Obv he hasn't stayed up to date on info because his wife losing tsate/smell is a big flag.

LOL at private plane to get kids out of there.

I don't think I've ever heard anyone say this before. I'm curious what terms you would propose to reflect the undeniable fact that this division makes a lot of sense biologically and historically. I could sort of see calling the New World the Americas or something, but what do you call Europe/Asia/Africa?

JayTee using faulty data IMO, as of the Sunday pregame show I can attest that Dan Marino's death rate is 0

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo . . .

This is ridiculous. One can volunteer at any age. The experimenters and/or regulating authorities might not accept people over a certain age, but 1daysooner doesn't even ask your age when you submit your willingness to be considered.

They even note in the sign-up form that "This is only an expression of interest. There will be multiple stages of registration and pre-qualification before selected volunteers can formally consent to participating in a human challenge trial (if one is ultimately approved and conducted)."

I have no idea why you are calling Howard a liar or claiming that he is trying to exploit young people for selfish reasons, but it is completely unwarranted and obnoxious, imo.

why does it make sense historically and biologically? you wouldn't think to call africa the old world, and europe the new world


i would refer to the new world/western hemisphere as the stolen hemisphere, stolen continents, genocidal americas... those terms make more sense historically

I absolutely volunteered and did so because I think it's the right thing to do; I've no idea if I would ever be eligible for a challenge trial, and I highly doubt that the FDA will ever run one for Covid-19. I also volunteered for every clinical study I could find for regular vaccine trials, again because I think it's the right thing to do. I'm 57 and in excellent health, but I haven't been accepted for any trial.

If you think it's effective to argue factually about something that you know nothing about and I know everything about, think again. All you're doing is making yourself look like an ass.

BTW, your posts are generally terrible: agenda-laden, emotional, and uncritical.

Challenge trials are in no way sketchy, and the ethics are certainly debatable, as many in the public sphere have articulated. I happen to have a well thought-out view on the subject and am as ever happy to modify it in the face of reasoned criticism. You, in contrast, assume that your position is correct (it is not) without acknowledging the actual underlying ethics of the problem.

Imagine if you will a disease that's ten times as deadly as C-19. Are challenge trials appropriate then? At what fatality rate does it become ethically correct to consider them?

I always love the "I mean, I don't have any idea how I got this cuz I don't do nothing. Sure, I bring my kids to basketball and football workouts every day and I went out to eat with my wife..."

Also love the process of --->feel like ****--->wife says she can't taste or smell--->still go to practice--->start running routes--->feel even worse--->finally tell trainers--->get tested.

I mean really, not knowing the smell/taste covid thing is just being willfully ignorant. At the VERY least, he should have received that info from the NO Saints staff. But jesus, what a dumb **** that guy is.

Shuffle,

Your tone is starting to go south, and I would suggest righting that ship as well as not @-ing Howard ****ing Treesong. You never want to go full RoundGuy.

Guess Covid doesn’t have a mutual respect for Emmanuel Sanders as it does for Odell Beckham. Per OBJ he can’t get it due to respect.

If only WRs in the nfl were the only problem. So many people think it’s ok for them to do insert risky behavior.

I stopped by a friends house (outside on a walk). Him and his wife’s new go to is that if Chris Christie got it and survived they are going to be fine. Not sure how their 70 year old parents who watch their kids will do though.

I'm not arguing for the accuracy of the new/old language, I get where you are coming from as far as that goes. None of your terms have a yin/yang relationship like new/old, if you call one the stolen hemisphere, the other would have to be whatever the opposite is to make sense.

The logic of the division is that Europe/Africa/Asia species are generally biologically distinct from American species. Biologists use "New World" to refer to species from the Nearctic and Neotropic zones (the new world to us heathens). Generally the plants used to develop agrarian lifestyles way back in the Neolithic are totally different in the two regions. I think yams are the only crop found in both before Columbus came and turned the world upside down.

I'll drop the subject as a derail now. It doesn't sound like you are aware of a standard alternative nomenclature.

This is so lol, considering the superior medical care provided/affordable to someone like Christie, and he had the luxury of checking into the hospital for a week, "just in case." This is a luxury that most people do not have (and *won't* have if hospitals start hitting capacity).

Totally agree. It’s an incredibly dumb, and unfortunately a common way to think.

IIRC he was in ICU for 5 days or so. No thanks.

i THOUGHT the football players were tested DAILY BEFORE PRACTICE...?