The safest way to realize if you're on the right side of the debate is by looking at the other people around you arguing and the ways they're going about it (from those on your side and your opponents, respectively). If you seriously can't tell the relative difference in depth of thought in what BrokeDonk is saying as opposed to several other posters in this thread, you're an idiot.

they're EXACTLY the same??? this is the argument you're trying to make. One removes a ****load of pleasure...the other is pretty much negligible in the long run since people seem happy with or without unless they drink the punch and decide they need it put back on

the guy who agrees with you that it's a human rights violation is the smartest in the thread

i explicitly stated that they are similar (though they are exactly the same for a time in the womb).

i think that one reason that circumcision is so prevelant today still is because even without a foreskin sex/jerking off is still great. however, from what i understand having a foreskin is much much better (but again, very subjective, i've read testimonies that state the opposite as well).

i think when discussing adult circumcision (the only people who actually lived a significant time with and without one), one should look at the motivations behind it. if the procedure was done because of a physical problem that made sex difficult, and a circumcision facilitates sex, then obviously sex is gonna be better. now if it was done for some other reason (religious conversion or something), then the person will likely say sex is worse. however, subjectivity plagues this debate, there really is no way to quantify results to come to a specific definitive conclusion.

my whole point is that it really should be up to the person themselves. i was circumcised, and whether or not it is better or worse does not matter to me, i just wish that the option was given to me, and not that my parents just did it thinking it was "in my best interests"

so when it comes time for me to have children, when this question comes up, there really is no question, i will simply state "i don't believe i have the right to have this particular procedure done to my child.

So your parents didnt want to pay the mohel?

The joke was told in the mother****ing OP, which reminds me how hurt I am that nobody commented on how hilarious those jokes are.

it's all right, nobody acknowledged my joke either

Phew, I was getting a little scared.

I see what you're going for there, but hyperbolizin' someone doing stupid things and being an "idiot" for it is hardly the most flagrant of violations.

i've been banned 37 times. i think it is asking a bit much to expect me to read and make (world class) jokes.

Ad homs are zzzzzzz

Are you saying the hood is fused to your glans essentially?

If so, that can be fixed.

If not, what is it? You can expose the head of you penis, but can't unsheath it (for lack of a better term) below that?



Either way, I'd feel cheated and kind of pissed off. And I'm being serious on all fronts here.

It would help if your jokes were funny.

hahaha i have to admit i enjoyed this one.

kk, 'no one owns a foreskin' was good, but the other one was hacky.

i agree with this skepticism. i don't go around looking at baby penises very often, but i'm pretty sure that everyone i know who has a kid had it circumcised. Before reading a thread about it like a month ago i hadn't even considered not having my kid circumcised, same with my gf. Honestly, i just don't think circumcision is something that is controversial to most people, or discussed, its just the norm, and i would need to see some sort of further breakdown or proof before i believed that a typical white couple isn't getting their kid circumcised basically always.

Circumcision Incidence Rate
Year 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000 2001 2002
NE 69.6% 68.3% 66.5% 68.3% 68.0% 65.4% 64.6% 66.9%
NC 80.1% 79.8% 80.9% 81.6% 82.9% 81.4% 81.4% 81.0%
South 64.7% 66.1% 63.6% 64.5% 64.6% 64.1% 63.9% 62.5%
West 34.2% 42.6% 36.3% 38.0% 38.3% 36.7% 37.3% 40.9%
All 62.7% 64.1% 60.2% 62.8% 63.2% 61.5% 62.4% 63.1%

(NE = northeast, NC = north central)

Year 2003 2004 2005 2006
Northeast 64.7% 66.4% 66.9% 63.6%
North Central 77.8% 79.5% 78.7% 77.9%
South 57.7% 58.5% 58.7% 55.3%
West 31.4% 31.7% 31.5% 33.8%
All Regions 55.9% 57.4% 57.3% 56.1%

(posting this chart was awkward, link to source:

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/USA/ )

i believe i read that the 2007 circumcision rate was 55%, however i cannot find a source to verify that.

quote from link:

In 2005, the U.S. achieved the highest incidence of genital integrity among newborn boys since 1934, based on Laumann's historical data.

genital integrity = boys that aren't circumcised

Here in Sweden circumcision is non-existent, and to me it's just one of those really really weird things you Americans are up to. I realize you feel the same way about us non-circumcised folk though.

more statistics

Changes in inpatient infant circumcision rates (%)
==================================================
Change
------------
2005 2001
State 2006 2005 2001 -2006 -2006
-------------- ---- ---- ---- ---- ----
Arizona 23 24 41 -1 -18
Arkansas 66 66
California 22 21 22 +1
Colorado 63 63 63
Florida 38 38 47 -9
Hawaii 80 81 84 -1 -4
Iowa 82 82 82
Kansas 76 76
Kentucky 80 84 85 -4 -5
Maryland 73 74 -1
Michigan 85 85 85
Minnesota 70 77 73 -7 -3
Missouri 77 77 84 -7
Nebraska 80 79 +1 -1
Nevada 13 14 -1 -4
New Hampshire 76 76
New Jersey 66 66 69 -3
New York 59 59 59
North Carolina 56 58 75 -19
Oklahoma 72 71 +1
Oregon 27 28 35 -1 -8
Utah 49 51 68 -2 -19
Vermont 66 66 71 -5
Washington 23 24 28 -1 -5
West Virginia 85 82 85 +3
Wisconsin 82 83 84 -1 -2


Changes in inpatient infant circumcision rates since 2001 by size
================================================== ===============
State 2006 2001 Change
-------------- ---- ---- ------
Utah 49 68 -19
North Carolina 56 75 -19
Arizona 23 41 -18
Florida 38 47 -9
Oregon 27 35 -8
Missouri 77 84 -7
Washington 23 28 -5
Vermont 66 71 -5
Kentucky 80 85 -5
Nevada 13 17* -4
Hawaii 80 84 -4
New Jersey 66 69 -3
Minnesota 70 73 -3
Wisconsin 82 84 -2
Nebraska 80 81 -1

New York 59 59 0
California 22 22 0
Colorado 63 63 0
Iowa 82 82 0
Michigan 85 85 0
West Virginia 85 85 0
* 2002

source: http://www.cirp.org/library/statisti...tate-by-state/

so the rates of circumcision are definitely declining overall and in many individual states

this is actually a pretty informative website, though i don't know how objective it is:

http://www.cirp.org/library/

it appears that the general consensus of american medical societies is that children should not be circumcised, or parents consider doing it, they should be very well informed on the subject (obv)

and this is a very informative page about the function of the foreskin:

http://www.cirp.org/library/sex_function/

wow, i gotta admit, i'm kinda mad that i was circumcised

lol @ genital intregrity

"My balls have never told a lie." - George Washington

The second one. Basically, the opening in my foreskin is way too small to get over the head. It's called phimosis (warning: don't wiki phimosis unless you like pics of gross wieners). I managed to get it past the head once, but I was completely flaccid and it hurt like hell. If I've got even a hint of a chubby that ****'s not coming down.

That sounds like the reason DKS got his removed. Jesus Christ, man, get that fixed. Set your penis free!

Landon, that sounds like a case where you need to have some sort of medical procedure to fix it. That is certainly not normal and I am sure is easily fixed. What age are you and why have you not got this fixed sooner? Embarrassment is not a valid enough reason, doctors have seen **** you wouldn't believe, they couldn't give a ****.

there was a thread a while back about a guy who had that same foreskin problem, i think, landon. probably it was you? if not, you should try finding it.

supa,

i'm not saying that your arguments lack merit or are without thought. you clearly have thought about your position quite a lot. in fact, i do not even have a problem with your position or consider it stupid. i consider your actual method of discourse and argumentation to be stupid and clearly below you, but somewhat standard for the people i know who want to be lawyers when they grow up, prior to entering law school. that is: "i have thought about this and come to the `right` conclusion, anyone who disagrees with me is clearly a moron who i will call a moron, not generally listen to what they have to say, but repeat my decently thought out position until i batter them in to submission. gah the world would be so much easier if everyone was as smart as me because i wouldn't have to do all this explaining all the time!"

Your foreskin had feeling too!

Yeah, sounds like he should get it done. Hopefully he has good insurance...cost me $20 copay for first doctor visit and nothing else because it was deemed medically necessary.

First couple weeks you have to keep it totally wrapped in gauze and replace the gauze once or twice a day. It hurts, but not the worst pain ever. Then, you basically have to wait for all the stitches to fall out...like 2 to 3 weeks. Then, there's the period where you should just leave it alone for more healing. I think they told me 6-8 weeks after surgery before any vigorous activity with it and that's probably right around how long I had to wait.