There is probably more chance of there being life after death if you consider the reports of those who come back from death as being potentially more than a chemical reaction in their brain.

I dont think there are any legitimate scientists who consider the chance to be more than an extremely tiny number (a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent). Basically the process all but destroys the cells and it relies not only on a future science to solve whatever killed you but also a future science that wont turn you into mush thawing you, not to mention it assumes you wont get accidentally unplugged by the cleaner one night etc.

If you want to take that chance, gl to you, but my personal point of view is if the money involved could help some friends, family or hyperthetical kids i have later in life then id much rather give them the cash than take a punt on this bet, ie if it costs $1m (im not sure on the cost fwiw) then id need to be worth like $100m for it to seem worth it.

Putting her in the ground to rot away and be eaten by bugs/worms is better?

and why would anyone do that lol?

Where in the hell do you people get your information? This is SO wrong...


BTW, I've been a licensed funeral director for 12 years and around the business my whole life, so in answer to your follow-up slam, Yes, I AM qualified to talk about this stuff and I DO know the industry inside and out....

And to further explain,

After the cremation process is complete, many times larger bones (femur, skull, etc.) do not burn to ash as completely as do smaller bones (metatarsals, phalanges, etc.); therefore, AFTER cremation, larger bones and fragments are pulverized in a machine to a uniform size (well...as uniform as you can get).

Any knucklehead or fool that claims to do ANY type of desecration to a body in such a manner is asking from ALOT of trouble from regulatory agencies (and yes, they always take that kind of thing VERY seriously).

And don't get me started on donation...... donating organs without being braindead is about the same as donating to science; heart valves and corneas would be about the only things usable from someone clinically dead (and after about 8 hours, there's not much usuable anyways).... I would guess that close to 99% of people that donate don't fully understand the process, rules or regulations. If they did, I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of them would cease to be a donor.

i stand guilty of passing along hilarious but wrong information.

I pretty much agree with all of this. Great explanation.

I never went to see the exhibit though it was just down the street from where I worked for a while. So strange, I think, people want to go see dead bodies. But that's just me.

I say cremate and scatter me, mostly because it seems simplest and (a) doesn't leave some physical location people might feel compelled to visit and not move on; and (b) if whoever I leave behind is willing to scatter the ashes, maybe that's more closure for them.

I don't really understand people visiting graves. Ok, I guess I get it, but it seems weird because at that point I don't have any connection between the
body and grave site, and the person I loved.

Yes, this did get morbid.

The useable organs from non brain dead donors are primarily livers and kidneys.

For what reason(s) do you think they'd cease to be registered organ donors if the knew the rules/regulations?

Actually, there are 2 types of organ donation: organ and tissue.

Organs includes heart, liver, kidneys, pancreas(IIRC) and lungs. These are all ONLY usuable for transplantation if a person is brain dead and NOT biologically/clinically dead. If someone is dead, these organs can be harvested, but are only used for educational purposes.... no lives saved in this manner.

Tissue would be eyes (cornea mostly), skin, heart valves and bone. Today, it's said (and I highly doubt this, TBH) that these items CAN be harvested if someone is dead for up to 24 hours. In college (mortuary school, to be exact), one of the higher ranking LOOP (Lifeline of Ohio Organ Procurement) officials explained to us that when biologically dead, skin, bones, eyes and heart valves can only be used/harvested up to 8 hours after death (and this assumes sterile conditions and immediate refrigeration of the remains).

Take all the above information relating to time frames and think about this..... after death in a medical facility (hospital/medical center), the nearest next-of-kin STILL has to give both written and verbal permission to harvest organs. Also consider that it normally takes 1-3 hours minimum for consent and paperwork to be filed and another 3-6 hours to mobilize, prep and get a retrieval team to the location. We're already at 4-9 hours and haven't even begun the harvesting of organs yet; and these are pretty fast times I'm giving here. I've seen personally on more than 4 occassions in the last year periods of more than 24 hours elapse before a team begins harvesting... what's usable then?

Organ donation has it's place and it's a nice gesture, but the public is not as informed as they should be about this and personally, it pisses me off that they don't have any full-disclosure requirements regarding organ donation (at least here in Ohio).

If someone wants to help, be a full body donor to a major medical university... that's the best help to give (also the cheapest way to go... about $300 total at my funeral home and that's all transportation charges).

Too many times people think that because Dad died in the ER and he was an organ donor, he saved someone's life.... sorry.... that's just plain wrong. If Dad was brain dead and kept alive on machines, then it's possible, but not if he's biologically/clinically dead... it just doesn't happen that way.

For anyone that would like to donate their body to science, I suggest you contact a local funeral home or university's anatomical department as most anatomical donation programs have paperwork that MUST be filed prior to death; and yes, they can refuse people for whatever reason.... if you're too fat, have communicable disease(s), major surgeries, or artificial body parts, you're probably going to be rejected.

If anyone wants info about anatomical donation, feel free to PM me and I'll see if I can't help you out with any info needed.

Damn I should probably have mentioned that I work for an organ procurement organization and you wouldn't have had to type out alot of that :O

One notion that you have incorrect is with regards to timing. All of that paperwork, prep, O.R. scheduling, etc is done while the patient is still alive and either trending toward brain death or possibly already brain dead. For a brain dead recovery, the patient is on a ventilator with a heartbeat and taken to the OR. The patient's heart stops beating in the OR after the recovery team "crossclamps" it. Recovery begins immediately after the heart stops.

With DCD (Donation after Cardiac Death) i.e. non heart beating patients, again all the paperwork and family consent is already done in advance. The family chooses the time they wish to withdraw life support. After withdrawing, if the patient's heart stops within some time frame (for us I think it's 45 minutes) they are quickly wheeled to an OR for organ recovery - we're talking minutes between cardiac arrest and first incision.

In no case whatsoever is it possible to recover organs for transplant after an hour, let alone 24 hours - although the cases you mention may have been for tissue which probably can be recovered much later.

Also nobody would ever think "Dad died in the ER and he was an organ donor, he saved someone's life" if Dad wasn't, in fact, an organ donor. The next of kin is involved through the entire process and the OPOs send letters to the families indicating what organs they were able to recover/transplant.

I agree with you that the public is not fully informed about what is involved in organ/tissue donation - ESPECIALLY when they sign up at the DMV. Now that we're in the days of internet we try to get the word out through other channels, unfortunately we operate on a non-profit budget.

Seems worth a shot if you are rich. If humans are still around in 500 years or w/e and the people running this then hold up their end it doesn't sound incredibly unlikely but this is totally uniformed speculation. And if it's possible I doubt it takes 500 years. Assuming it would be a good thing to come back to life after so long and all that, who knows but sounds cool you can always just commit suicide right?

Be careful with this. One person I read about was cryogenically frozen, but then her daughter was mad at her and made the computer change the settings so that she was conscious. So she felt frozen and couldn't move a thing and was totally aware of it, and she went crazy from the torture.

Because the percentage probabilities of both happening are pretty close.

I think an irrational belief that cryogenics will let you live on after death is worse than an irrational belief in life after death. One is a belief of selfishness and the other a belief of hope.

Maybe you should be involved with LOOP then.... all I know is that in this particular area, IMO, their procedures and protocol are NOT what I would expect in these situations. We've had 3 seperate occassions in the past 2 years where a body was held over 48 hours for donation. Also, 2 funeral directors in this area work for the eye bank (diff. from LOOP, I know) and both have confided in me that LOOP doesn't operate quite 'above par' for lack of a better term..... and it's become quite common for a minimum of 24 hours to pass before remains are released.

Also, I live in a lower-economic area that probably has below-average educational levels WRT to individuals. Trust me.... many people DO think that organs can save lives after biological death.

Also, no paperwork is ever completed before a person dies in this area(unless that person is brain dead). You keep talking about being on machines to continue life.... I'm talking about situations where a person is pronounced dead in the ER or even DOA.... clinically dead.... no heart beat, no brain activity.... nothing. In these cases, it normally DOES take over 2 hours just to get the paperwork. I've even had LOOP call my funeral home on numerous occassions up to 10-12 hours after death and ask for family contact information so they could contact them and prepare and present paperwork to the family. WTF? (Also, hospital policy in this area is to call LOOP for EVERY death occurring within their facility.... no matter the circumstances).

If it's on the level and there's full-disclosure, I have no problem with any type of donation, but from my personal experience (and experience of others in the region that I've spoken to) our own organ procurement agency's about as shady as I've ever known.

I've asked before to have copies of their paperwork sent to me for my perusal and have been denied. Can you think of a reason for them to deny me access to their blank forms used for consent and information? I can't and it makes me a bit suspicious that they refuse to forward blank paperwork to me.

Can I ask your position with your organ procurement company? Do you coordinate with families or do you harvest the organs or do you have a different position?

You and I both work in fields that have a more thorough understanding of what's involved in organ procurement, so I think we can both differentiate between brain-dead and biologically or clinically dead. Many people don't have that background of knowledge or understand what's involved in organ donation to make an educated decision. I'd just like to see that aspect changed. I encourage people to ask questions regarding organ donation, because, as anyone logical would agree, rumors run rampant. I imagine many folks, when finding out you work for an organ procurement company, ask what could be termed as stupid questions or make remarks about 'old wive's tales' that they've heard. How many misconceptions about organ donation are out there? Probably more than either of us would be comfortable with, and that needs to change, IMO.

Gomez, being a funeral director I would love to hear your choice: cremation or burial for you?

I don't really know anything about LOOP. As far as I can tell they are an accredited member of the Association of Organ Procurement Organizations and peer reviewed every 3 years to maintain membership. I don't know why they would hold a body for 48 hours but could be maybe waiting for a family member or something. I don't think OPOs hold bodies, they just release them back to the medical examiner after procurement.
I think most people from all economic strata believe this.
The hospital is supposed to notify the OPO BEFORE the patient dies, but after the "clinical triggers" are met where they are nearly certain the patient will not survive. That policy is the same for us, and probably for all OPOs. For the non brain dead donors, speaking strictly about organs, all the paperwork IS done in advance. The hospital notifies us and we send someone to meet with the family and discuss organ donation. In these cases where the patient is not brain dead, we get consent from the family to do a DCD recovery. We ask the family a series medical/social history type questions (ever used IV drugs, ever received a tattoo in prison, ever spent time in africa, history of hypertension, etc). Then when the family is ready to withdraw life support, the patient is extubated and we wait. If the patient's heart stops within 45 minutes of extubation they're taken immediately to the OR.

Patients that arrive DOA or die in the ER before an OPO team can get onsite won't become organ donors.

Now tissue donation is different and LOOP does do tissue recovery as well so I suspect it's for tissue that you're getting calls 12 hours after death. I don't know much about tissue donation processes yet - my OPO just started doing tissue but I won't be getting involved in that for a few more months.
I can't speak for LOOP, but for my OPO I believe everything we do is above board and respectful of the families and patients. If I thought we operated in a shady way I'd leave.
No can't think of a reason
I am mainly a report writer for the organization. I spend most days developing queries/procs/etc in our sql database.

Personally, I don't have a preference. At this time, I'd probably opt for a visitation followed by cremation. My wife and I have talked about it. She mentioned an idea that I kinda liked: The above and after cremation, she mentioned going to Vegas and sprinkling a little bit of me in some poker rooms..... sounds a bit crazy, but it made me aware of the fact that my wife knows me somewhat. She later brought up having my cremains made into poker chips and giving one to each of my friends.... kinda cool, in a morbid sort of way. Thinking about it while writing this, though, I think that I would want my wife to do whatever makes her the most comfortable (should I die first, of course). One thing most people don't realize or think about: Funerals are more for the living than for the dead. I'm not talking about religious crap here, I'm talking about the fact that many decisions people make regarding their own final disposition take into account more the survivors than the decendant, if that makes sense.

I really dont care what happens after I die, but there are 2 things that weigh on my mind regarding my own death:

1. I don't want to die alone

2. I'd like to be remembered and not forgotten

I think more of my bitchin' is directed at tissue donation than organ. The brain-dead, harvest for actual transplantation I have no problem with whatsoever; it's the tissue donation that gets me. I think it has more to do with misconceptions that the general public has in differentiating between organ and tissue. LOOP doesn't do a good job of disclosing that information to the next-of-kin from the information I've gathered and that pisses me off.

I had a friend die about 5 years ago and he was a donor. He died on a Friday morning at one of the local hospitals. We got the call at around 6:00 a.m. and were told that LOOP hadn't been contacted yet. He was finally released to us at ~9:30 p.m. the following Saturday (the next day). While talking to his wife in the arrangement conference, she confided in me that she hoped his heart or lungs would help someone to live. I didn't have the heart to tell her that those organs would be unusable after the time that had passed (LOOP had called us that Friday afternoon because they had failed to contact the wife yet and still had to do that.... they didn't talk to her until Saturday morning).

It was after the above happened that I began to question what LOOP did. Sadly, the above has become more of the norm instead of the exception where I'm at (a good reason for my jadedness, IMO).

Maybe our OPO is an exception to most others, but from my experience, I wouldn't let LOOP touch my dog if it died, let alone anyone I cared about and had the opportunity to decide upon. I'm not saying it's ALL bad or all wrong, but FFS, please get information before making decisions. All it takes is one bad experience for people to be turned off of something... I've seen more than that myself, hence my opposition to donation at this time (unless they change disclosure, of course).

Hi Gomez.

I worked as a funeral director for 10 years. The last 5 was selling pre-need with SCI. I have not been around the biz at all in several years since then.


How long in Funeral Service?

What has changed in the last 5 years?

Do you work in a corporate or privately owned business?


Cheers!

Been licensed since '97... family business, so around it my whole life (getting out of it asap, though). Been actively working in the funeral home since 22; so.... 15 years total.


In the last 5 years??? Probably the cremation rate. I would say about 5 years ago we were around 20%. Last year, we were at 39%. Also, I think consumer knowledge has increased, also (that's a good thing, IMO). Competition has increased, as well... it's nothing now for someone to walk into the funeral home and present me with a quote from another funeral home and ask me if I can beat it. Personally, I don't like this, but I can understand it. Before anyone asks, it leads not only to competition, which is good, but it also leads to businesses slashing prices to garner business. I've actually seen funeral homes quote prices at cost just to get a call.... not real good for the industry, but good for consumer, I guess.

I answered the 3rd question above... family owned. Sometimes I wish it weren't, though......

As an side-note, we had an opportunity to sell to SCI about 10 years ago for 1.8 million and turned it down... dumbest thing my dad ever did, TBH.

**** clicked to fast. Def donate to science as the first corpse to time travel.

doesnt matter , im dead

Where's the "I couldn't care less" option?

Edit: I guess that's the donate to science one

I guess there are some moral issues with where the bodies came from, but I just meant horrific like gross, it's a dead body; peeled.

If my family can afford it I would prefer to be frozen. Even just having my body brought to Antarctica and left on a Mountain there would be cool.

Otherwise a Green Burial would be my choice. I would like a stone for a marker (Not necessarily a head stone, but something) but otherwise nothing else.

theres no donate/buried option so i chose buried