Looking at this Hallberg-Rassy site it looks like the first choice I need to make is aft-cockpit vs center-cockpit. What are the pros and cons of each?

Nevermind, the 372 or 412 is the boat for me.

Holy ***** these things are expensive!

Interesting, I much prefer center cockpit boats. Yes, they're expensive and hold their value quite well. Check out Yachtworld.com for a large selection of used HR's.

Center cockpit is higher and provides better visibility as well as a drier more comfortable ride, less salt mist getting on you and the cockpit.

Center cockpit also divides the living space below making for more privacy and works better w/ regard to engine room placement, noise and access.

It's also easier to land fish on the aft deck of a center cockpit boat.

I can't really think of any pros of an aft cockpit boat

Because I will look cool hanging onto the wheel in the back of the boat with my long hair flying in the wind, unfiltered Camel Turkish blend dangling from my lips, French supermodel sunbathing topless in a thong on a lounger just ahead of me....

Get a used boat. They are way cheaper and fiberglass boats last forever.

I was actually looking at the used boat prices. Still like 300k min

Mostly true, though there can be issues - fiberglass can delaminate or blister making for very expensive repairs. Make sure you get a survey done.

The other advantage to buying used is reduced outfitting cost. If you buy a new boat you can expect to spend another 50-100k to buy all of the stuff you never thought of but that doesn't come with a new boat.

I suppose the aft cockpit gives you a larger, taller, more well-lit galley and saloon.

Cap,

My understanding was that ownership costs increase about proportionate to the cube of the boat's length. Does that sound about right to you? I'm trying to apply that to a 50+' boat and thinking, "Damn, that's a pricey way to live." I gather it's less of a relative hit (comparing a 43' boat to a 53') if you DIY a lot. Would that be a fair assessment?

what do you think about the Gemini 105MC? It is a pretty reasonable priced catamaran. Any negative views on this boat for blue water sailing? I know about the bridge slap..

I'd actually say the opposite is true. A center cockpit sits higher on the boat taking away less interior volume. Being able to place the engine directly under the cockpit also makes for a more efficient use of interior space.

I think ownership cost has less to do with the size difference between 43' to 53' than what equipment the boat has and how it's built. If the boat has every gadget known to man it's going to be expensive to maintain.

The rule of thumb I've heard a lot is 10% of a boat's value for annual upkeep, maintenance, insurance and dockage. This can vary quite a bit by how much you do yourself, level of maintenance and where you keep the boat.

I'm not that familiar with them, I've never sailed on one. That said, there are a lot of them out there and the few owners i've talked to had good things to say about them. It wouldn't be for me but everyone has different ideas of what they want in a boat.

For yourself, pros and cons of a cat?

Alright, i've done some research. Center cockpits get you up higher and give you better visibility. May or may not result in a drier ride. They also are way better for down below. With an aft cockpit there's nothing below the cockpit so you have way less interior space. Aft cockpits are therefore cheaper. And they sail faster (no high up cockpit catching the wind) and look better imho.

The big, center cockpit boats I have seen always have a cool, vintage, motor yacht look while the aft cockpit has the sexy, racer look. Is the aft cockpit design a more recent look?

I dunno, my research didn't say anything about that.

One thing I did learn was that people on cruising forums have terrible spelling and grammar.

Agree about the sexy look of the aft pit. Although pilothouse is probably the best possible solution.

Too much salt air and rum matey. Unless English is the second language of all the posters you read, I would think that people who sail speak and write much better than the general population.

That sucks if it works that way. My spelling and grammar are reasonable and I am poor as a church mouse but one good brain injury might bring me a sailboat. Interesting trade-off.

Center cockpits are absolutely a drier ride, and you'll get less salt mist and salt build up in the cockpit.

While an aft cockpit will provide less windage it is totally irrelevant, unless you're racing, due to the very minimal difference. It also has little effect for cruisers since you're almost always sailing off the wind.

A friend of mine has a 45'ish Bruce Roberts Pilothouse (I think technically it's a 460 Spray built with steel) that he just sailed down from the Great Lakes to Puerto Rico to retire aboard. To me, if I was day sailing on the Great Lakes, an aft cockpit would be the way to go, but living aboard, or making passages, the pilothouse or center cockpit designs are superior.

Is this true? If you sail from the Virgin Islands to Miami for a vacation don't you have to beat upwind the whole way back home?

My only sailing experience is from Sid Meier's Pirates.

That's where I get my knowledge of the Caribbean too.

HA, I didn't know what ^^^^^ this was all about. I thought I was missing a cool ride at an amusement park somewhere.

I've never really been a huge catamaran fan, though they do have some great benefits. I haven't done an offshore passage aboard one yet, and that will surely change my opinion some.

Pro:
Great for partying aboard, lots of space

Nearly impossible to actually sink

2 engines providing some redundancy - though you can't always rely on 1 engine getting you out of trouble. I was aboard a cat that was nearly lost on a leeward shore using only 1 engine.

Great storage for dinghies and toys as well as a great platform for swimming from

Con:
unnatural movement - cats move up, down and side to side as opposed to monohulls which roll & rock around their center of gravity

Not as pretty

The rig on a cat will continue to become overloaded until it breaks where as a monohull will heel more as it's overloaded, preventing it from breaking

Marina fees are often double for catamarans

Cats have much more windage than monohulls making them harder to sail to windward and anchor

If you manage to flip one there's no coming back upright

Ultimately less safe than a monohull. If my only goal was to float around the Caribbean drinking & partying I'd buy a catamaran. If my goal was to do some serious bluewater, long distance, cruising I'd buy a monohull.

It's mostly true. Passage route planning is done to avoid sailing to weather very much. If you're going from point a to point b and back you're most likely going to have to sail to weather unless you wait for wind shifts. Most people don't sail that way though.

Most people plan to go from point a to b to c and then maybe back to a. You just plan your life so that you don't have to sail to weather, or you hire me to sail your boat to weather for you.

Speaking of dinghies, where do you store it? The decks of these boats look too small.

I'm probably a killjoy with this question but I rarely notice anyone wearing any kind of flotation device or vest or whatever they call them when under sail. Is accidentally slipping and falling out of sailboat so remote a possibility that no one bothers? I could understand when two or more people are on deck during the day when it might be easier to rescue someone but alone on night watch I'd want to be tied to the wheel and wearing a vest loaded with granola bars, fresh water, and shark repellent just in case the rope or wheel breaks.

So what you're telling us is, sailing is not for you?