I hear ya brother I try not to drink just cause its so easy to go to far but that said i do still party pretty hard though bud is safer for me...

Have there been any documented cases of gastric bypass working where people actually get down to an appropriate body fat percentage (not BMI) and stay there long term?

Semi-starvation diets are just that - they do not feed the body the necessary nutrients in order for it to survive properly. Nails grow slowly, hair falls out, blood pressure decreases, cuts take longer to heal, hunger becomes more intense, symptoms of depression and anxiety exist, anger sets in earlier. Essentially you are shifting your body away from homeostasis and everything is getting fried. You will also become much hungrier after the conclusion of the semi-starvation period and put fat back on much faster and have lower resting metabolism and a higher body fat percentage.

All of what I wrote comes from the book Good Calories Bad Calories by gary Taubes which I highly recommend to anyone even remotely interested in their own personal well being. It essentially states that all refined sugar, flour and high fructose corn-syrup are what is causing obesity, heart disease, diabetes and cancer. Rice, pasta, potatoes bread and beer are also evil.

I would highly recommend against anyone doing GBP or the lap-band.

Greek I take what you say about nutrition pretty seriously, you seem to have done a tremendous amount of research. As someone who has been in the OP's shoes though, it is really hard having a weight problem. I have to say that mine is 75% mental/letting life get to me, 25% genetic. But I also have to agree that GBP and Laps Bands are not a shortcut in any way, its like fixing a swiss watch with a phillips screw driver, and they should only be undertaken when there is serious health issues associated with obesity. I have just lost too much weight when I have been feeling mentally good to not know that the mental part is a huge factor.

To the OP, no questions but congratulations on holding steady; excercise man, after all these years and yoyo's its been the only thing that has worked without exception for me.

I have followed Greeks advice as of late and adjusted from a heavy rice carb/fruit vegetable diet to one with more protein (black beans etc) and am upping my fat intake using seseme seeds/oil and olive oil. Started in July at about 315 and today am in the high 250's. Walking up Pinnacle Mt State Park in Little Rock, once or twice a week, plus 45-55 minute walk/jog about 5 days a week, with a slow progression to the jog side. Ordered the book and will see what it has to say. I just don't think I can get my protein from beef and pork though, just too much animal fat, I just can't get past that no matter what the books say. The good news is it is deer season here so I expect to have 50-100 pounds of lean organic venison in the cooler pretty soon. Hopefully I can keep it up if I don't get involved with any more bi-polar women or have any of the other life disasters I have run into the last few years.

A tremendous amount of research is going a little far but soon I hope it to be that. I have never been so passionate about a subject before reading GCBC. In fact I will probably be going so far as to getting to know the intricate details of the biology and physics down so that I can better equip myself to argue in favor of a low-carb diet.

Taubes mentions evidence suggesting that saturated fat might indeed be good for us. It raises HDL cholesterol and HDL is one of the best know predictors for heart disease (there is a strong inverse relationship). It does raise LDL, which has been previously been thought as "bad cholesterol", but this is just the case of oversimplification. There are several different types of LDL and saturated fat is most likely to produce the harmless large fluffly LDL that are filled with cholesterol and some triglycerides. It is the small dense LDL that get caught in the plaques and eventually gives us heart disease and these are only formed from eating carbs, and in particular HFCS.

Cancer also seems to flourish in the presence of insulin, which is induced by the intake of carbs, especially easily digestible carbs like flour and sugar. Cancer cells can grow and spread when the hormone Insulin-like Growth Hormone (IGF) is released. The receptors for the IGF intensify after insulin levels are spiked. Tumors in lab mice stopped or slowed to an extremely slow rate when a gene for IGF expression was removed.

There is also evidence that when insulin is elevated advanced glycogen end-products (AGE) are formed. AGEs form when proteins haphazardly bind to sugar without the presence of an enzyme. They are free to bind because the body is burning glucose (the residual sugar that the body can use as energy after breaking down a carb) causing oxygen molecules to become reactive. These molecules are called oxidants and thats why you hear anti-oxidants being thrown around a lot in the media. LDL must be oxidized first to cause damage. The absence of this enzyme is critical and thus the accumulation will continue and not be undone (which it can be) if the diet does not change. These AGE's have been found interconnected in the neuron cells in the brain. They are normally cleared away naturally but when insulin is elevated the clearing enzyme (Insulin degrading enzyme) is monopolized by the insulin and so cannot do its job effectively. He believes Alzheimers results from this.

There is muuuuch more in the book and am not sure how anyone could argue against him - I have yet to see anything definitive revoking anything he has written and even have looked a decent amount online but have found nothing.

I would definitely not stay away fatty meat and infact probably warn people against a very high protein (>70%) diet which I have read somewhere can be potentially toxic.

Here is one mans account of living an all meat diet for 47 years

http://activenocarber.myfreeforum.or...m_about22.html

Another good forum of discussion is http://forum.lowcarber.org/

A great blog by MD Michael Eades with his own book http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/

And for personal anecdotal evidence- I have been eating nearly 0 carbs for the past month or so and feel the best I have ever felt that I can remember. I have much more energy, have no problem going to the gym, am getting stronger faster, can focus better and generally just feel great. I just eat eggs, cheese, red meat, and spinach.

Why do you keep starting this same thread? (yes, it's the same guy)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/34...0-year-174995/

http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/show...ue#Post8310377

Nice Find...

greeksquared... your diet sounds really really awful and unhealthy, but to each his own i guess...

i have to say the same thing about the vegan diet I have following pretty closely... I feel full of energy... I sleep for 6 hours, wake up, and cannot fall back asleep... and must get up whether it's 5 AM cause I passed out early or 9 AM when I wake up... I just have too much energy to stay in bed for more than a minute or two after I wake up. It's a great feeling to be up this early and get going and be productive and have 6 hours of 'work' done before many on this site have even woken up!

i eat vegan and would highly highly highly recommend "the thrive diet " and "the china study"

the thrive diet has a bunch of recipes, its totally vegan but you could just supplement your diet, v good recipes. Lots of raw foods, diet is about 45% vegetable, 30% fruit, 10% grain / pseudo grain , 5% oil / nuts. I'm sure I got those % a little bit off but ... you get the idea.

Sometimes you have to tinker w the recipes a little bit, but very good ideas/ concepts. You need a blender, a food processor, and a grinder for this diet. And an oven, nothing else though.

Diet is mostly things like salads, granola bars, smoothies, "pizzas", "burgers", lots of other stuff you can add. I always feel satisfied. There's no calorie counting, there's no limit to how much or little you can eat.

I have been eating 500++% DV of fat, but it's pretty much all healthy fat since it's not coming from animals, it burns right off me. For the past 2+ months but I'm down 20+ pounds and can really notice changes for the better to my body. Understanding the SCIENCE BEHIND THE FOOD is the best way to go. How it is grown, how it is prepared, what all of these different elements and ingredients are... now that I know, I am one of those nits reading the back of the box to see what's in it in the grocery store. Our bodies are our greatest assets, we only get one of them, there's no do overs. You are what you eat.

I feel so good... I can't imagine eating animal products ever again to be honest... at least give it a try for 2-3 months. What do you have to lose besides 20 pounds?

I have to say though, it's important to ease into it slowly... you can't just go cold turkey to a completely new diet you've never had before. It takes time for the body to get used to it.

China Study is more statistical based, looks at correlations between disease and fat intake, very surprising results in many cases. This is book is much academic, sourced than the thrive diet but both contain a wealth of useful information and are well worth their cost. These books will only lead you to ask more questions, which is a good thing.
Both books just make 100% sense!! Pick them up!

reasons to become a vegetarian, courtesy of goveg.com:



# 7

The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth.19 About 20 percent of the world's population, or 1.4 billion people, could be fed with the grain and soybeans fed to U.S. cattle alone.20

# 6

more than 70 percent of the grain and cereals that we grow in this country are fed to farmed animals

# 5

According to scientists at the Smithsonian Institute, the equivalent of seven football fields of land is bulldozed every minute, much of it to create more room for farmed animals

# 4
E, the respected environmental magazine, noted in 2002 that more than one-third of all fossil fuels produced in the United States are used to raise animals for food.21 This makes sense, since 80 percent of all agricultural land in the U.S. is used by the meat and dairy industries (this includes, of course, the land used to raise crops to feed them).
that's roughly half of the total land mass of the U.S.10 More than 260 million acres of U.S. forest have been cleared to create cropland to grow grain to feed farmed animals.11

# 3

It takes 5,000 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of meat, while growing 1 pound of wheat only requires 25 gallons.23 A totally vegetarian diet requires only 300 gallons of water per day, while a meat-eating diet requires more than 4,000 gallons of water per day.24,25 You save more water by not eating a pound of beef than you do by not showering for an entire year.26

#2

Nearly half of all the water used in the United States goes to raising animals for food.22

#1

Animals raised for food produce 130 times as much excrement as the entire U.S. population, roughly 89,000 pounds per second, all without the benefit of waste treatment systems.28 According to the Union of Concerned Scientists, animals on factory farms in America produce 20 tons of fecal matter each year for every U.S. household.29 A pig farm with 5,000 animals produces as much fecal waste as a city of 50,000 people.30 According to Oregon State University agriculture professor Peter Cheeke, factory farming constitutes "a frontal assault on the environment, with massive groundwater and air pollution problems."



---
If there was one thing you could do in your life to help stop global warming, nothing would make a bigger difference than not eating animals.

**This vegetarian propaganda has been brought to you by meditate89. peace, love , happiness.**

THIS. Extremely well researched and will open your eyes about food.

You have provided 0 evidence against my diet

The China study you cite actually was an extremely poorly designed piece of "science" that can be neaty fully refuted by reading the link below

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

I hold a masters degree in statistics and believe that I can evaluate evidence better than most and have learned to see through the biases that are ubiquitous in diet recommendations.

If you can find a solid piece of evidence implicating saturated fat and virtually any animal product in a well-defined, clinically controlled trial I would love to see it.

There has yet to be a single study implicating dietary fat directly related to any disease of civilization. There are several studies that indicate cancer rates fall with consumption of fat.

The MRFIT study in the early 80's which had 12k men with very cholesterol placed on either a low-fat diet or the same diet showed there were more deaths from the group that changed the diet. There were more deaths from lung cancer even though 15% more of the low-fat group stopped smoking.

meditate89,

What do you do about vitamin B12?

A general note on vegetarian versus carnivorous diets: you need a book to know which plants you can eat; no such reference is required to know which (land) animals you can eat.

isaac-- I obtain vit b12 through sources such as chlorella , miso, nutritional yeast, supplements, other kinds of seaweed I can't remember name... Also I believe a smoothie mix i use is supplemented w it possibly.

this #1 hardest thing to obtain is vitamin b12 for vegetarians... it's not a huge downside though... you need very little amount... amount that fits into a thimble is a year's supply.

Besides vitamin b12, there's really not much at all that is a problem to get.

also i have cheated on this diet a few times and have probably had 2-3 servings of meat over the past 2 months ( not within the last month though ) so i'm not really worried about dying from lack of b12... it's an important thing to know about though if you're vegan.


greek- All I can see here is very very strong correlation between meat eating and many different types of cancer and heart disease in the China Study. Can you please sum up the guys arguments against the china study a little bit in your own words? Maybe copy + paste the most important parts of his argument?

I have been going to school for the last 13 years and i have 4 different degrees in statistics, nutrition, plant microbiology, astrophysics. Also, my penis is bigger than yours.

There may never ever ever be a study produced that is up to your standards. You may never be able to know anything for sure. Why not just think for yourself and use some common sense?

That said, I will try to find you some studies. Do you also believe that mass producing meat using chemicals, growth hormones, fertilizers is sustainable and good for our environment? Those statements from goveg.com have citations from their site if you're interested. I want to know if I should also be arguing with you about whether mass animal production is bad for the environment, or arguing solely regarding the health issue of eating animal products?

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics...st_polluters/1

On a scale of 1 to 10, how accurate and credible would you say this article is?

* Intestinal tract length. Carnivorous animals have intestinal tracts that are 3-6x their body length, while herbivores have intestinal tracts 10-12x their body length. Human beings have the same intestinal tract ratio as herbivores.
* Stomach acidity. Carnivores’ stomachs are 20x more acidic than the stomachs of herbivores. Human stomach acidity matches that of herbivores.
* Saliva. The saliva of carnivores is acidic. The saliva of herbivores is alkaline, which helps pre-digest plant foods. Human saliva is alkaline.
* Shape of intestines. Carnivore bowels are smooth, shaped like a pipe, so meat passes through quickly — they don’t have bumps or pockets. Herbivore bowels are bumpy and pouch-like with lots of pockets, like a windy mountain road, so plant foods pass through slowly for optimal nutrient absorption. Human bowels have the same characteristics as those of herbivores.
* Fiber. Carnivores don’t require fiber to help move food through their short and smooth digestive tracts. Herbivores require dietary fiber to move food through their long and bumpy digestive tracts, to prevent the bowels from becoming clogged with rotting food. Humans have the same requirement as herbivores.
* Cholesterol. Cholesterol is not a problem for a carnivore’s digestive system. A carnivore such as a cat can handle a high-cholesterol diet without negative health consequences. A human cannot. Humans have zero dietary need for cholesterol because our bodies manufacture all we need. Cholesterol is only found in animal foods, never in plant foods. A plant-based diet is by definition cholesterol-free.
* Claws and teeth. Carnivores have claws, sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, and no flat molars for chewing. Herbivores have no claws or sharp front teeth capable of subduing prey, but they have flat molars for chewing. Humans have the same characteristics as herbivores.

-----

can we agree that vegetarians on average live at least 5 years longer than meat eaters? I would put a more aggressive number than 5 in there, but I just want to at least have some common ground we can spring off of.

can we agree that animals tend to have a lot of cholesterol? can we agree that plants tend to have hardly any cholesterol? can we agree that many americans have high cholesterol? can we agree that high cholesterol may possible cause a higher rate of heart disease?

Imo you'd better be a lot fatter than 340 before doing something as drastic as gastr... ugh.

But seriously- you can lose that kinda weight and build good habits and not **** yourself up. Gastric should be for some "I'm part of my couch and pay the pizza guy by throwing quarters at him from an empty ice cream bucket" ****.

Let's not get carried away and cite things (5 years longer) which have so many confounding variables that they're meaningless. Or make inferences about cholesterol metabolism that are far too simplistic. The reality is we evolved as omnivores. Our closest relatives are omnivores.

Human intestine: 7.5-8.5 meters (source)

Human height: 1.69 meters (source, used the U.S. male number)

Ratio of intestine length to height: 4.44-5.03

Care to provide citations for any of these claims?

Humans also have big brains, two appendages not used for locomotion, and hands that can grasp that enable them to create and use tools to subdue prey.

[citation needed]

There is no link between dietary cholesterol and blood cholesterol. Can you cite a source that states otherwise?

Human intestinal length is 20 feet around three time our body length, the lower end of your range and we are able to eat raw meat and organs.


Below is a reprint from a link above- and do not know how accurate the validity is

Chemical analysis of bones from the digs indicates they are the same composition as the African lion- thus, virtually no intake of vegetation. There were no 'hunter-gatherer' societies until the neolithic, even though some modern HG tribes still made and used typical paleolithic napped-stone tools. The so called Nearthin and Paleodiet thus are both nonsense, true paleolithic people were total carnivores and ate no veggies whatsoever.
In the relatively short evolutionary period since the consumption of vegetables as food there has not been any real adaptation to such low grade low energy, difficult to digest foods. Because we have no adaptation to digesting or processing vegetables as food, they are all basically very bad for us.

Vitamins. that is easy, there are virtually no sources of any vitamins to be in vegetation (which is why all vitamin supplements are synthetic), but all are found in abundance in meat. For example no source of A other than animal liver exists. The amount of B complex in 30 gm of fresh red meat is more than can be extracted from one hundred kilos of yeast concentrate- once it was done, but at great expense. C is not the only antiscorbitic substance, since a diet of just red meat prevents scurvy (the Inuit diet)

We evolved as an active, group-hunting animal. We have a high natural requirement for physical exercise and cannot live long or be healthy without a lot of it.

Concerning vegetables, there is no 'baby'- it is all just a load of dirty water. Moderns do not eat any raw natural vegetation other than sugary fruit and some difficult to indigestible nuts. All modern veg foodstuff have been extensively modified by selective breeding to reduce to eliminate toxins and still require long cooking, are low in nutrients and cause a growth of harmful bacteria in the intestine, while the fibrous cellulose residues (fibre) scratches the delicate lining and causes mucus and scarring. This reduces nutrition and eventually as you age, this damage will lead to malnutrition even on a good diet. Meat leaves the stomach as a liquid after about 45-60 min, and is totally absorbed in the first foot or two of the small intestine- no scratching and no mucus formation. Human milk is very sweet, hence the 'sweet tooth' is easy to develop if reinforced by lollies as a baby. Without this reinforcement sweets are seldom later sought after. If paleo people actually ate seasonal fruits (quite possible in some places), they ate them where found, no evidence or residue has been found in digs.


The only time cholesterol is a problem in humans is when a carbohydrate is ingested. The actual amount of cholesterol is a horrible predictor of heart disease, it is the type of lipid protein that determines the risk of heart disease. The small dense LDL particles are what are oxidized and then caught in the plaques of the arteries

-----

How can you even say with any reliability that vegetarians live longer? There is almost no way to get any definitive proof of this. I would strongly suggest you read more about how cholesterol is synthesized in the body before writing anything more about it. There are two separate books that are tilted the great cholesterol con that presumably show how horribly we have analyzed it in the past.

Agriculture itself is only 10-15k years old

The info I posted about vegetarian vs meat eater is from celestialhealing.net, which is ran by:

Dr. Akilah El is a Doctor of Naturopathy and Certified Personal Fitness Trainer, as well as a Master Practitioner of Wholistic Health, Herbology, Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP), Reflexology, Kinesiology (Muscle Testing), Iridology, and Nutrition. She is an Advance Clinical Hypnotherapist and Spiritual Counselor. In addition to being a Reiki Master and Distance Healer, Dr. Akilah is also an Ordained Interfaith Minister and motivational speaker. She holds degrees in Psychology, Judicial Law, Divinity, and Religion.

Non meat vitamin sources- please let me know if you want to know how I get any vitamins, etc. Nutritional is readily available in plant-only sources, meat is far from a necessity in our diet. Our closes ancestors’ diet is NOT strictly vegetarian, I am willing to admit, but chimpanzees / apes / etc DO eat 95%++ vegetarian diet in nearly all instances. They do eat some very small animals, as well as insects, but meat is a very very very small part of their diet.

Vitamin A : carrots, pumpkin, sweet potatoes, winter squash, broccoli, kale, parsley, spinach, apricots, mango , papaya, cantaloupe.

Vitamin b1: legumes, pseudograins, nuts, brown rice, nutritional yeast, blackstrap molasses

Vitamin b2 :same
Vitamin b3: beers, sunflower seeds, nutritional yeast
B5: seeds, pseudograins, avocado
B6: pseudograins, bananas, brown rice, walnuts, avocados, oats.

Already said b12 earlier

Vitamin c: most vegetables and fruits, particularly citrus

I get hardly any vitamins at all… I take maybe 1\ supplment type pill per day on average, and I mix them up too, rarely ever same one 2 days in a row. Truth is supplements can be really tough for your body to absorb and food that is found in nature is much healthier for you.


I agree with you 100% about the exercise… exercise is very very important no matter what your diet is like. Just because we happened to get exercise as hunter gatherers doesn’t mean we need to go kill animals every time we want to exercise.


# 1 most important point here… just look how the animals are raised… have you ever seen videos of the conditions? Even if meat was very very good for me, I still wouldn’t put it into my body because of the cruel and really really dirty nasty gross conditions the animals are raised in… they live in their own feces for their entire lives… they don’t have enough room to turn around… they are given STEROIDS, CHEMICALS, PESTICIDES, HORMONES, etc. Why would you want to put that **** into your body?

I can tell you I have some personal experience which is very very anecdotal but I know many people who are vegan, and many who are not… and the children with the vegan diet have hit puberty 3-4-5 years later on average than the ones who are drinking milk, eating lots of meat, not taking the fluoride out of their drinking water, etc. Obviously this is a very small sample size, I’m willing to admit.

HOW MANY VEGETARIANS DO YOU KNOW WHO ARE OVERWEIGHT?

I know you will probably find a way to discount every study I post, but here are a few I’ve found

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/ma...ticlekey=52100


Also I am curious if you could post your “typical diet” for maybe a 2 week timeframe, I know it probably varies greatly but just try to do your best to put up a realistic representation. I highly highly doubt you are getting all of the vitamins + minerals you should be getting.

I just can’t see how you can cut carbs out of your diet. Increased dietary carbohydrate is essential for maintaining energy levels and replenishing muscles post- exertion. Carbs also assist in the digestion and utilization of all other foods. I’m obviously talking about good carbs that haven’t had the fiber stripped away from them…

The first symptoms exhibited by people who limit healthy carbs for a prolonged period are mental lethargy and increased general fatigue. If a carb restrictive diet is maintained for an extended period, it can lead to internal organ damage, and ironically, a reduction in lean muscle and the accumulation of excess body fat. Complex carbs derived from whole grains are an excellent source of fueld for the muscles and brain.

Refined, processed carbs cause inflammation to develop in the body. Inflammation is the precursor to visible signs of premature aging. In contrast, carbohydrate derived from raw fruit helps reduce inflammation, contributing to quicker recovery from exercise and slowing of biological aging.

“Depression, anxiety, and schizophrenia can be connected to meat consumption. The amount of tryptophan (An amino acid necessary for normal growth in infants and for nitrogen balance in adults.) in the foods that are eaten has only a small influence upon the amount of tryptophan that enters the brain. The most important factor determining the total amount of tryptophan that does enter the brain is the concentration of other large-molecule amino acids concurrently present in the blood. Large-molecule amino acids, among them tryptophan, compete with each other to enter "gates" between the circulating blood stream and the relatively confined brain fluids. A high-protein meal (full of meats, dairy foods, and eggs) provides many other amino acids that compete with tryptophan for entry into the brain; the end result is less tryptophan passing into the brain and a decrease in the synthesis of serotonin (a phenolic amine neurotransmitter that is a powerful vasoconstrictor and is found especially in the brain, blood serum, and gastric mucosa of mammals). Conversely, a low-protein, carbohydrate-rich diet (full of starches, vegetables, and fruits) results in the highest levels of serotonin in the brain, because fewer large-molecule amino acids are competing with tryptophan to enter the brain. For most this means less hyperactivity, anxiety, depression, and insomnia-provided they eat a vegetarian diet.

In some people anxiety, depression, and fatigue are caused by allergic reactions to foods. The most common causes of food allergies are dairy products, followed by eggs. These reactions are often subtle and difficult to recognize until the offending food has been eliminated, either by accident or by intention, and then, later, when the body is challenged with the suspect food, a recognizably adverse reaction occurs.
A serious psychological disease caused by foods in some people is schizophrenia. In hospital-based studies, some patients have been identified who react with dramatic behavioral changes to milk products and animal products. Some people with schizophrenia have actually been cured of their disease by changing their diet, (eliminating meat and dairy) and including more natural foods like fruits, vegetables, and whole grains.
” This is also from the same website, celestialhealing.net

Do you think she'd be willing to fight me? I really want to fight her.

loldidsaments



I weigh more than OP does now, but im both tall and fat.

You've obviously bought into propaganda put out by the dairy and meat industry. I guess I can't blame you- they have powerful lobbying groups with billions of dollars. It's a shame how much ignorance there is on the topic of nutrition. Milk does not do the body good.

http://www.milksucks.com/more.asp

please read through this website... do you disagree with ALL of these experts? can you explain why?

Those who eat healthier are healthier... you are what you eat.

I look for HIGH NET ENERGY GAIN foods to consume. This is the energy and usable sustenance that our body is left with once the food has been digested and assimilated. the more energy it takes to digest, assimilate and utilize the nutrients, the less we are left with.

most foods in North American diet require nearly as much energy to assimilate as they c ontain... i used to go into restaurants, eat a whole loaf of french bread that they give away before the meal. my stomach would get full, yet i would still be hungry because there's no nutrients in that bread!

the digestive process requires energy, a large portion of which is expelled as heat. as heat escapes the body, so does energy. if the energy had not been lost, it might have been used as fuel for other body functions or fabrication of new cellular tissue.

If you follow a vegetarian diet, you may notice that your core body temperature decreases slightly because high net gain foods are more easily digested. this is a particularly huge advantage to athletes because it provides a larger 'window' in which to operate. when physical intensity rises, so does body temp. by starting at a lower point, athelete will be able to generate a greater intensity before reaching max temp the body can efficiently function under. that is, a lower operating temperature translates into the ability to perform more work before experiencing fatigue. This will also allow the body- and therefore heart- to not have to work as hard, allowing the heart rate to beat lower. This will greatly enhance endurance b/c less energy is expended doing the same workload.

the more processed a food is, the more stimulating effect it will have on the nervous system, and the more nutrients have been stipped out of the food.

cost free energy producing foods tend to be :
whole - unprocessed, unrefined
raw and rich in naturally occurring enzymes
alkaline or alkaline forming
high in natural vitamins and minerals
best in sprouted form

much of this info was taken from the book i recommended earlier in the thread, THE THRIVE DIET
as well as this site http://www.vegparadise.com/athlete10.html

Ed- there's a pic of her up on the site... she looks pretty fierce I don't think I could take her...

I don't necessarily think that celestialhealing is the most reliable source... it's a little too religious for me... but a lot of those things seem like common knowledge to me... ie do humans have alkaline saliva or not? ok well, you can google that pretty easily... but
have you ever spit on a PH strip? it should come back 7.2- 7.5ish I believe... that's proof right there!

That's the thing, when it comes down to it... my arguments just good common sense- use your head. I don't need to link a bunch of biased / BS studies that contradict each other and I don't understand enough to explain to others

It appears we have a bunch of statistics being thrown around that have obviously come from Peta-philes. These people actually believe we should be vegetarians, and other animals should too. They seriously want to put out feeders for lions in Tanzania to feed from so they won't eat gazelles! There is little that I am not tolerant of, but wow.

People are omnivores, when we hunted and gathered we ate mostly fruit and vegetables, and occasionally ate meat. Why do you think we have molars to chew vegetables, and canines to tear meat? I was a vegetarian for a while and I gained much of the weight while I was. It is no panacea.

I myself am about 300lbs. and I figure if I eat the tiny meals the bypass forces you to eat, the effect would be about the same...yes?? From what I understand the risk in general is not worth the risk of surgery. Especially since many gain weight again. I believe I will continue to exercise and try to do better about portion control, and frequency.

meditate, aren't you the conspiracy theorist??

Holy crap the business forum is ****ing awesome. I feel like I've been missing out.

yes kurosh, do you think i should start an ask me thread? I am most certainly qualified as a conspiracy theorist! i think i need to respond to a bunch of threads but they're all like intertwined...

I'm too wound up... can't sleep...

also other great thing about being vegan:

you can eat platefuls and platefuls and platefuls of food and only be eating like 1,400 calories / day...
ill have 3 or 4 gigantic meals, plenty of snacks, and still only eat 1400 / day at absolute max... this can really help keep your 420 buzz going on... although I haven't smoked now in a long time.

Kentucky Buddha - buy the thrive diet and slowly wean yourself onto it. It has meal ideas for like 4 weeks at least I believe... I don't want to make you an guarantees but I really really think you can lose some serious weight on this diet- probably 1/2 - 1 pound per week easily if you exercise vigilantly.

Try keeping a food journal. There's absolutely no reason to count your calories at all on this diet. Counting calories IS STUPID.

Today I had

Whole grain pasta, sauce, brocolli , parmesan cheats - this takes about 7 minutes to prepare

smoothie - vega supplement, melon, berries, stevia, maca, other supps, ice, bananas, ground flaxsee,d hemp oil, etc - this takes about 7 minutes to prepare on average.

veggie burgers w whole wheat toast and ketchup that i made by myself from scratch+ some fruit - this takes about 7 minutes.

some macadamia nuts, some CANDY, some pumpkin seeds

also heated up some brown rice i made the other day.

had a salad w peppers, cucumber, tomato, croutons , lettuce, kelp, home made dressing that i made from scratch.

had a granola bar that i made from scratch.

As long as you plan your meals out a few days in advance, it's really easy to make things in bulk, drastically cutting down on opportunity ( time) cost of making the foods, and cutting down on production cost by buying in bulk.