Still a 5 * thread imo! If you've been on the runway and held up for a few hours, what are your rights as a passenger to make them take you back to the gate or to let you deplane?

I get somewhat claustrophobic in planes before takeoff, and if I ever found myself in this situation I don't know what I'd do...

Do the Captains keep a valium stash?

I like this. Lot of truth in it.

There are similarities with driving a car. Do you remember starting out as a driver? Concentrating hard on parking neatly? Staying in the center of your lane (not hugging the right or left)? These tasks took focus, whereas today you do them without conscious thought.

With the landing there are visual cues, such as the sight picture looking way down to the far end of the runway and also periperal vision, that are very hard for a beginner to correlate completely because of the strong focus on other critical items. As your experience and comfort level increases, you'll naturally start to include the other cues.

But ... there's still art to it.

From a company memo to pilots, dated Jun24, 2010:

That fine is paid to the U.S. Government, not the passengers, so it's not like a bad beat jackpot for you. Also, for international flights the time is increased to 4 hours.

I don't believe an individual passenger has a right to insist on a return to the gate prior to these limits, but in practice I've seen it done. When I flew the shuttle out of DCA to LGA (and LGA to BOS), we had occasions where the airspace was closed due to weather somewhere en route and so we sat on the ground at DCA. I remember one really bad day where I was flying the 1:30 shuttle and we didn't actually takeoff from DCA until around 6 pm. During that time, we elected to return to the gate twice to let passengers off (and also put a few more on who had arrived for later flights which were also going to be delayed). At the time there was no law that said we had to do that. In effect, the passengers were a hostage to the airline once we left the gate.

I should point out that the decision to return to the gate is often complicated by the fact that you could lose your turn in line and thus even further delay those who elect to stay on and tough out the delay. In the case I cited above, we negotiated with the tower to preserve our takeoff slot before we went back to the gate.


Crew use only.

Awesome thread, thanks alot W0X0F.

What do you think about http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE67Q1J320100827 , was that some kind of http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJSey8HRUhU prank?

I have never heard of pre-recorded messages advising passengers of imminent emergency situations and I would have dismissed this story out-of-hand except that it seems to be reported by several reputable sites, so I guess these messages actually do exist. (Sounds like another Airbus innovation to me.)

I can't imagine ever using such a stock message. If we do actually have an emergency, we would need to include some specific information in any PA we made. I just don't see how having an automated message benefits the crew.

I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to disable this "feature".


Here's a Gary Larson cartoon on point. Copyrighted, so if that's a problem the mod can remove it...

Getting the approach correct every time will help you get the landings down much more quickly. Try and get on glideslope and trimmed for the correct airspeed as soon as possible, that way you can focus on timing the flare correctly. Consider having a lesson with a different instructor; even though my instructor was excellent, it helped a lot to have fresh input.

This is my favorite of his many hilarious airline-related strips!

That comic you posted, plus the fact that I just watched Good Will Hunting again (the movie features a joke about airline pilots and unintentional cabin announcements...) inspires me to ask another pair of questions:

1) What is the most embarrassing mistake (if any) you've made or heard with respect to a cabin announcement?

2) What's your feeling about the occasional flight attendant who decides to get humorously creative with the routine cabin announcements? It's not all that common, but I've occasionally been on a flight where I'm told that "your flotation device can also be used as a seat cushion..." etc (an for the record, I'm a fearless flyer with a generous sense of humor so I'm a fan of such cracks...)

I don't have any personal gaffes worthy of mention, but I remember one from the late 90's, attributed to a USAir pilot, which sounds too good to be true but I've had guys swear it's true.

This pilot made a PA on a beautiful day as the flight was passing just west of New York city. He pointed Manhattan out to the passengers and then added: "...and the visibility is just great today. If you look out over the city, you can see all the way to f***ing Montauk."

He then released the mic button and looked over at the other pilot and said, "Did I just say what I think I said?" The story is that he got time off from the job after some passenger complaints.

Smacks of urban legend to me, but I like the story.

In general, I'm a big fan of anything that gets away from the monotone, standard airline-speak. I've seen the occasional FA who overdoes the cutesy-ness, but it's nice when they change it up a little. If any of you ever flew the short-lived Independence Air (IAD based), they had canned safety briefs by celebrities such as Dennis Miller (they also had James Carville and his wife, Mary Matalin, do the brief as a team) and they were very popular with passengers.

The nice thing about changing it up a little is that you might actually get some passengers to listen. It's so easy to just filter out the standard brief.

Commuting to work yesterday, I winced at the phrase, "We do thank you for your attention." It's a common thing that they add "We do" to sentences that don't need them and for some reason it grates on my ear. But I'm probably hyper-sensitive to the PA's. (I'm like the old man telling the kids to get off his lawn.)

Good point and thanks for adding it.

It's one of the truisms of aviation: a good approach leads to a good landing. If you're all over the sky during the approach, you can't really be too surprised when you don't pull off a sweet landing.

You'll occasionally experience one of those days where the conditions are perfect. The wind is calm, or extremely steady, and as you fly down final it feels like the plane is on rails. In GA planes, I've occasionally had the sensation that I'm just walking it down to a landing and that I could touch down at any point on the runway I choose.

It's common in a beginner to be constantly varying the aircraft attitude (pitch) and the power. During the approach, once configured for landing and with final approach speed established, power is your primary control of descent rate (staying on glidepath) and pitch is your primary speed control (too slow? lower the nose).

A good exercise, once you feel comfortable with the plane, is to try to make an approach without every adding power. In other words, you can reduce power throughout the approach, but never increase it. This will teach you to make smoother and smaller power changes and you will also learn what power settings work for your particular airplane.

I always listen to Katherine (Deltalina), at least until she wags her finger at me and tells me that smoking is not allowed on any Delta flight. There's something about her... And I'm almost a 5 MM, so I've heard the preflight a couple of times...

I hope this thread never ends.

I love it when she gets that little sparkle on her teeth.

If I understand your answer, the thrust coming out of the jet engine is more akin to the air rushing out of a balloon, propelling the balloon forward?

What I was trying to ask in original question was what physical portion of the jet engine is receiving the initial reaction to the thrust, which is then transferred to the airframe, and thusly propels the plane forward.

p.s. Did OP ever have an inkling he would be starting a 2,500 post, 5 star thread?

The turbine blades are much like prop blades and they're the components pushing the air, so I would have to say they're the parts getting the force of the reaction. However, I'm not sure what a aeronautical engineer would think of this discussion.

Just to be completely honest about it: I'm a pilot...I can fly 'em, but I can't build 'em. (Same with my car. I drive it, but I have a pretty rudimentary knowledge of the workings of the engine.)

+1. Just checked, and that safety video on youtube has 1.8 million views...

This weekend a Southwest FA gave the following:

"In the event of a water landing, you may use either your seat cushion or the person next to you as a flotation device."

It got a chuckle, and made me think of this thread.

I am a CRAP poker player who registered for this site (and visits this site regularly) with only this thread in mind.

Given all of the ads on each page of this site, and the length of this thread... you should talk to the administrators about getting a revenue cut!

(and/or look into a book deal...)

Sorry if already covered, but what do you think of the Flight Attendant occupation. What is the best route to go to become one? Is it true they can only work at most 75ish hours a month? Are Flight Attendants furloughed overseas often, and do they receive a stipend if they are required to stay overnight somewhere foreign? Do you recommend this profession? (I'm a single man with college education). Do you think it is an enjoyable and worthwhile profession? Any other advice is appreciated.

We discussed pushbacks when no tug was available. Here's one way of doing it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWa_v61B1P4

Another pilot was accused of drinking before a flight yesterday evening at DFW. The flight was delayed several hours looking for another pilot while accused pilot was tested. Pilot was cleared. AA spokesman told Ch 4 Fox news that a FA had said something to someone who then reported it. People were giggling and cutting up during the AA supervisors broken english announcement of the delay...

Thought of a random question today.

I pretty much always experience different quality landings when I'm in a plane. Sometimes, they're so smooth that I don't realize we're on the ground. Sometimes there is a huge bump and I wonder if something broke. How much of the difference in these landings is attributed to the skill of the pilot and how much of it is due to landing "variance"/weather conditions? Are there some pilots that land perfectly every time and others that are always rough?

Also, I took my discovery flight in a Cessna 172 this week. Thought it was awesome and shockingly easy.

Did the same in a Robinson 22. Thought it was awsome and shockingly hard.

This is still such a great thread.

Can you tell me anything about this crash in Papua New Guinea?

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/wor...-1225913746125

Would having the owner of the airline on board make the pilots more inclined to chance a risky flight? I guess a sense of bravado or cowboy attitude? Have you heard bad stories about flying in PNG?

How lucky is the guy who survived, ie. do many people walk away from these kinds of crashes with 'severe bruising'?

http://aviation-safety.net/database/...?id=20100831-0

Thanks for all your time in this thread.

Helicopters are awesome. However, there are two generally held principles regarding them;

1. An airplane wants to fly whereas a helicopter wants to fall out of the sky
2. An aircraft whose airfoils travel faster than the aircraft itself, cannot be A Good Thing.

Those principles are only generally held by fixed wing pilots.

LOL I thought that might elicit a response from one of the helo drivers on this forum. I've flown in a helicopter on maybe half a dozen occasions and every trip was just fantastic. I wouldn't hesitate to fly in one again and wish I knew a helicopter pilot who could take me up for the occasional jolly.

Actually, to give W0X0F a break for a while maybe you could answer me something about helicopters? What's different about certain helicopters that allows them to fly inverted? I'm guessing that for a start, you have to be able to to put the collective into negative pitch but I dare say it doesn't end there.

why would a helicopter ever need to fly upside down?