fracking it is we

NPR did a news story today about how methane is being found in drinking water in PA and NY.

So say we all.

distillates are basically gasoline, or at least they're very similar

Was on the treadmill today at the gym watching mad money without headphones. Saw 'fracking' on the cc and my immediate thought was that there was an oot thread on this. I really need to get out of my shell...

Fracking discussed @ 7 mins. Whole interview is worth watching.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/43023663

halliburton's website which has a ton of information on the composition of their fracking solutions says that they use ~1% of the solution mixed with 90+% water and some filler

this is not necessarily true and you would probably have to be in the ppb or ppt range to safely say that (i mean in some cases you would be fine doing that but its not universal) and it doesn't look like we're looking at concentrations that low wrt fracking solutions. taking a hazardous solution and diluting it in a bunch of water before you discharge it generally doesn't fly when it comes to proper waste disposal

i work in an industry that is regulated up the ass by all levels of government and our discharge limits for water coming out of the plant are very strict. for example even though we discharge 100,000+ gallons of water every day we can't take a solution containing toxic heavy metals and a cyanide and dilute it by slowly bleeding it into the outgoing fresh water stream, we must instead send it through the waste treatment system which will destroy the cyanide and extract the metal before it is discharged from the plant

This is true. My uncle is involved in the oil industry (but not nat. gas). Apparently fracking has been used to release more oil from the area around a well site for many years. It is basically the same process as NG fracking, and there have been no problems when it's done for oil wells.

Side note- with oil well fracking, it's water, sand, and chemicals. Like, a million dollars worth of sand for each fracking job....Think about how cheap sand is, and they use a million dollars worth of it for each job!

Maybe b/c it's a gas that's more easily leaked/seeped into the ground that's causing the problem. I live in OK where the Natural Gas industry is big and getting bigger by the day.

I hope this doesn't become a problem around here......

Fair point, and I should have been more specific than "a huge %". I haven't spent too much time reading the water quality reports that are used in water treatment plant design, but on the low end things are measured in ppm, but ppb or ppt probably come up as well.

Going by what Halliburton says on their site (90+% water), I would be surprised if it would meet whatever the definition of safe is for just leaving it in the ground.

Lot of people guessing about very specific, technical things in this thread.

wells have always been fractured in order to produce. The way it works is you drill into a formation, but the oil (or gas) is trapped in varying layers of rock. In the vertical wellbore they would have a cocktail of mostly sand set off with explosives that would go out in various directions and fracture the formation. This causes the oil to pour out of the formation and into the wellbore.

Hydro-fracking is what they use in shale gas wells which are typically drilled horizontally. They go into the well bore with HUGE volumes of water, and some chemicals and the water under extreme pressure shoots these small pellets called frac balls that bust up the formation and then allow the natural gas to come out. I've heard of gas wells as shallow as 800-1200 feet but a lot of them are 2500+. It really depends on the formation. Regardless, most of the water in PA and NY comes from the delaware river watershed and I'm guessing the average depth of any well for water there if necessary is WAY below 800 feet. Could be wrong though.

Hey, if the people from PA and NY don't want wells drilled there, I think it's real simple, don't ship them any gas from places that do. They'll reverse course soon enough.

There is something wrong if frac water is getting into drinking water strata. The fracing is always done hundreds if not thousands of feet below sands that are used for drinking water. The casing and/or the cement job must fail during the frac to enter fresh water formations and this should be detectable from the pressure readings during the treatment.

The most likely source of these contaminants is after the well has been produced and the casing fails to isolate.

The US governmment is pumping radioactive waste/hazardous materials down disposal wells every day.

I prolly shoulda addressed the "Fracking being around for so long" sooner. From what Ive read there is a difference in how they do it that makes it more hazardous and whatever that change is hasnt been around for that long, maybe a decade or 2. Cant really remember the particulars since its been a while since I did the research. Really wish I could remember but what it was now.....


edit: just had a thought, coulda been total BS tho I was reading a ton of different stuff on the subject and I can only remember 1 instance of reading it sooo...

As a member of the chemical industry, I don't generally use the Earth Times as a source, but they mention what I think is one of the major concerns with the new wave of fracking.

http://www.earthtimes.org/energy/dan...rthquakes/552/

There is a significant fault line, the New Madrid fault, that is overdue for an earthquake. There's some question of whether fracking contributes to earthquakes.

Also there is significant fracking going on around the supervolcano centered in Yellowstone National Park.

I generally support drilling, but it's important to balance the benefits of cheap energy against possible catastrophic natural disasters.

Better not drink the ground water above the shale gas:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEtgvwllNpg

I watched Gasland, very interesting. No idea if this is something to be concerned over. I'm not losing any sleep.

Translation: I don't live in one of the affected areas.

NYT

Attack gas. Attack nuclear. Attack oil. Hello stone age.

If you want cheap energy you gotta pay in externalities baby

If I lived in a small town with a ~1000 residents then yes I would be concerned, but I'm in the provincial capital and believe the government will ensure the water is safe. Maybe it isn't but I'm not going to worry about it. If they allow us to be poisoned then GG.

Hey everybody, Maso will probably be ok. Mods you can lock the thread now.

The Colbert Report just did a story on this. Apparently there is a politician (not sure what office) that is trying to lift the ban on fracking in New York. Eventually they are going to have to drill there since apparently there is 2x the amount of saudi oil there in the form of natural gas but hopefully they change their methods so that it doesnt pollute ground water. Apparently a lot of states lower then NY (all the way down to Delaware) get their water from a source that originates in NY so if they get it wrong it could effect a large part of the east coast. Guess we will see what happens.