It didn't look clean. It looked like someone had cleaned it with steel wool. It also wasn't the only knife tested. It was the only knife that Knox expressed concern about before the results were known.

Again why do you keep spreading lies?

The independent reviews claimed that Stefanoni did not provide the documentation for negative tests. Steganoni insisted she had. The copy of that was filed with the court had the negative tests. The copy that was publicly available had the negative tests. Vecchiotti kept insisting that she had not been provided with them. So one of two things happened -- for some reason every copy of the original DNA report had the negative tests except the copy sent to Vecchiotti or Vecchiotti is an idiot and didn't understand what she was looking at. I kind of favour the latter given some of her really ****ed up views on the science of DNA.

I Have to go with Henry hear. The Massei report does say that the last provable interaction with the computer was at 18:47. The 21:10 time is the movie ending after the credits. It could be automatic or human. I think you know this 239 so unless you have proof please accept the evidence.

It is circumstantial, but I would add that I have never in my life watched a movie in it's entirety and never touched the volume, hit pause, or made a single adjustment from the time I hit play until the final credits were done rolling. Try doing this with another person, especially someone of the opposite sex. You at least have to set the needed volume levels after the movie starts.


Henry, Please provide the phone info to prove the time stamp on the CCTV is correct. This would throw 239 argument of the time stamp being incorrect out the window.

It is part of a much bigger series of calls that implicated Amanda.

12:08pm Amanda calls Filomena and tells her that there is strange things at the cottage and blood. Filomena asks about Meredith and Amanda says she is nowhere to be found. Filomena then starts to get upset and tells Amanda to call Meredith.

12:11pm Amanda fakes calles Meredith. I say fake calls because she dials the numbers for both of Meredith's phones but hangs up before there was time for the phone to even ring (3s and 4s). It took about 16s to get to voice mail. Amanda knew no one would answer but she wanted to create the record that she called but is an idiot for not knowing that length of call is also recorded.

Amanda would later describe the 12:11pm calls to Meredith as the phone just rang and rang which is a lie since the call lasted three seconds.

Those were the only calls to Meredith. Later Amanda claims they were trying to force open the door and climb though the window but she never tries calling again.

Filomena calls back and Amanda does not answer. That isn't really significant but my completely speculative theory is that she was hoping to draw Filomena back into town so that she would be there to discover the body. Assuming that was the purpose it works as Filomena starts to return to the cottage but she dispatches her boyfriend who were closer to go.

There is a bunch of other strange things about the phones like Filomena calling back and telling Amanda to call the police but Amanda not mentioning that the police were already there but those are not really important. What matters is the fake calls to Meredith.

actually massei does address this starting on page 308 to 310 and acknowledges the possibility that there was human interaction at 1am, however it also recognizes that there may have been no human interaction. it looks like pretty inconsequential evidence and it does not provide much support for the defense.

Working on it. I have to find Battistelli's testimony.

While looking for Battistelli's testimony I came across a translation of Raffaele's second call to the 911 number

If you believe the call before the police arrived scenario this call happened from 12:54 to 12:55. The postal police would have needed to arrive at instantly at the end of this call with Meredith's phone and for the next 20 minutes no one mentions the door to the police and in fact try to convince them that there is no reason to be concerned about the door being locked.

How exactly does someone get from we need to call 911 to tell them about the locked door to there is nothing to worry about she always locks her door?

The fact that Raf might have woken up and played a music file and made a playlist is completely innocuous. Sorry Henry.


I'm nearly certain we have never had this conversation before, please find a post about it somewhere. In fact I'm pretty sure you all agreed that 9:10 was the last interaction. Either way they are seen in person at 8:40 so it doesn't seem to crazy to me that someone closed the movie file. I will look more into this specific point, but I think there is actually more to this discussion in terms of whether it can be determined if there was actually human interaction irrespective of what Massei said.


You have zero objectivity. This is not a court of law. A truly objective person would be interested to know what the details of this information are. I've put them forward as exactly what they are, claims that the defense made inbetween the trials.


I'm not trying to claim anything. I said very specifically that Massei accepts there *might* have been interaction at 1 AM. He clearly does. That was actually new to me and seemed worth adding to thread in an effort to have all of the information objectively out there. Your claim

Can you post the transcript of this so we can decide for ourselves what the context was? Or point to somewhere in Massei where there is a conclusion that this means something?



Again what I said was Amanda and Raf didn't *really* know Rudy. Meaning they had never done anything together in an organized way. They could not have been considered "friends". Amanda and Raf had only known each for six days. Instead of relying on the list above that shows the lengths you have to go to try and prove they even knew each other which again they *really* didn't know each other in any sense other than having (in Amanda's case) maybe been introduced once, why don't you create a list of the evidence that shows they coordinated and conspired to do the murder. I'll save you the trouble, there isn't any.



As usual this entire section is a complete logic fail where your reveal your insane bias. You are now taking Rudy's word for it! So because he told this story we are to believe him even though when searched he had taken a knife from the school and had a laptop from a previous burglary? Really Henry? The same guy with his DNA inside Meredith and on her clothes and undergarment as well his shoe hand palm prints on the pillow underneath her slain body? We're supposed to believe he was there innocently? Wow.

You are as terrible at reasoning as Judge Massei. What is this supposed to mean? Because he didn't pull out a knife on this lady he couldn't have pulled one out on Meredith? Why would you say that when an eyewitness testified that Rudy did pull a knife out on him when he caught him in his house? You are so blinded by your desire for Amanda and Raf to be guilty you've now resorted to making excuses and are covering for a known convicted murderer even though there is eyewitness testimony that Rudy is capable of pulling out a knife. Bravo.

Yes he stole the knife from the school and was not supposed to be there period. This coupled with the fact that he was suspected in other burglaries makes it pretty clear he broke in whether or not there was forced entry or not.

Yes, again, we should totally believe the upstanding Rudy Guede. The fact of the matter is the burglary at the lawyers office where the laptop was taken matched the MO of the break in at the murder house and it's not even close. Second story entry point broken into through glass with a large stone. This actually IS evidence, very strong circumstantial evidence suggesting Rudy broke in and was there when Meredith got home. Again this isn't even close. Your take on it is truly bizarre and twisted.

Aside from what Henry tries to spin below that this is a small part of a larger story that just isn't true. First if this were true, it would be the single most damning piece of evidence against Amanda and Raf and it wouldn't be close. It would clearly show that they had something to hide. In fact it would be so damning that I would probably change my position on the case completely. It's that big of a deal.

So also consider that because the timestamps on the video are off and the police think they know this happened very early on, it led to tremendous confirmation bias in this case because they *knew* they were guilty they just had to find proof. Other items like Raf's shoes being a close match to Rudy's helped this along. This absolutely factored in to the investigation.



No it would be bigger than that.

They thought the police that showed up to investigate the phones had been dispatched due to their call but we're a bit confused because they'd gotten there so fast.

It doesn't seem strange to me that a young girl in a foreign country would call home at this point at all. Of course yes she's scared about the scene because you've already decided she's guilty.

I forgot about these phone calls.
They seem more damning then anything else.

Just to be clear though...do the "recorders" record the length of the ringing as well or just once the phone picks up?

like 3 seconds to hear the answering machine seems to make sense.

3 seconds to wait for it to ring and ring and then hear the answering machine (assuming there is proof the answering machine picked up) is totally unbelievable.

As far as I know it was the only kitchen knife taken from that drawer and was selected because it looked exceptionally clean. Why wouldn't they take all of the knives from that drawer if they were looking for a murder weapon? As far as Amanda expressing concerns again I don't see anything abnormal about a person wrongly charged with a bloody murder to be worried about evidence that's cropping up in the case.


Henry, you are simply wrong about this. You have no idea which negative controls are referenced in the report apparently in regards to which items and which machines. For instance there were no negative controls run at all on the Qubit Fluorimeter that was used for the knife blade amplification. There were no negative controls taken on the surrounding surfaces where the bra clasp was collected. They never existed and therefore could never be turned over. You also seem to think this all has to do with negative tests when it doesn't. She refused until forced by the court to turn over the data she used to reach her conclusions.

As for the knife, the independent report concluded there was no scientifically conclusive evidence that the knife blade sample was blood. There was also no scientific basis that the material was exfoliated cells. They go on to describe the documentation surrounding the entire analysis of the knife as completely inadequate. They go into great detail to explain that essentially this was shoddy science at best.

I saw a pic or two of Amanda Knox itt, are there more? Can someone post some?

This back and forth like a bad episode of Italian law and order is doing my head in (much like the victim had her head done in ironically)

I was actually referring to "the scene" as either the murder scene or just the burglary scene. I agree it is reasonable to call just about the burglary scene.

You have to admit see goes from "curious" enough to call her roommate and get her boyfriend and yet still calm enough to eat breakfast to panicked enough to call her mom in the middle of night(her mom's time) pretty fast.

Knox is obviously a huge liar.

239 says she's just an innocent girl who was framed, but her behavior is that of a psychopath.

and then back to calm enough to not tell the cops about Meredith's locked door that they tried to bust down, after they showed up with Meredith's missing phones

I'm looking into it. Honestly I've repeatedly seen guilters accept this as the last human interaction so I'm wondering if there is more to the story. It's also not clear to me whether or not anything your describing like altering the volume would be recorded by the computer. Further if they launched the movie at 6:47, do we know if 9:10 is when it would have ended without pausing it? If they had to have paused it according to your theory there should be a record. I don't know the answers to these questions, just wondering aloud.

So, I just tried to find this information and I'm seeing a reference on a site that says that the rutime of Amelie is 122 minutes meaning if left unattended the film would finish at 8:29 with the closing credits at 8:25. So clearly it was not left to run out and if your theory is correct there should be additional records of pausing or interaction. I think the reason there isn't is because those events aren't recorded and all we see is the last time it was interacted with.

It would be interesting to know if in fact it can be ascertained whether or not the 9:10 interaction was human. Massei states Trotta says you can't but doesn't offer any testing. He mentions previously that they did test the file by interrupting it and that resulted in a different timestamp being revealed in the EnCase software than what the OS showed. That's the same thing that happened here. I'll try to get to the bottom of this.

Massei mentions 12:43 and then says it will be in the next section but it isn't. I see 12:43 listed on the guilter sites, but if this proved the 112 call I think we'd have heard about it by now. Again you have to remember that the 112 call would be the most damning piece of circumstantial evidence they had. So if there were a way to prove it, they'd certainly have put forth every effort to do that and you would assume this call would be high on the list of the prosecution.

There is actual video evidence that proves that's pretty much when they arrived. Review it.

Everything that happened that morning is totally consistent with them being innocent and not assuming that Meredith is murdered behind the door. Seriously. If you assume that they are guilty and know Meredith is murdered behind the door you can use any piece of information and frame it in that light.

That's actually not what I said at all but who's counting, let's just say stuff on a 3rd grade level itt.

So I'm misrepresenting your position? How so?

You have repeatedly argued that her behavior throughout the course of the day in question (and actually on other days as well) is consistent with that of an innocent person. You are arguing that she is innocent.

122 minutes is 2 hours and 2 minutes not 60 + 20 =2 = 82

so 647 plus 2hours and 2 minutes = 849

if the running time is actually 1 hour and 22 minutes then that is different...

and for what it is worth movies sometimes do weird things when you leave them on a computer...for lack of better term "they loop or whatever"

haven't you ever woken up to the "looping" of a movie left on.

How do you explain the short phone calls to Meredith phones???

It would be perfectly fine if he had said so when asked about the events of that night. The problem is that he didn't. He was very clear that he slept until 10am.

So I am glad to see you agree that he he was up and that he lied to the police about sleeping in until 10am.

There isn't. The expert is very clear in the statement that the ending of the file would have triggered the event with or without a human being present. I tend to agree with powder_8s that I have never actually watched the credits of any film. Poker_Reference would certainly not have this problem as she pauses videos pretty much every three minutes.

Defence will say anything -- that is their job. Until it is admitted as evidence and cross-examined by the other side it is meaningless. That is just a fact of life. If we took what the defence said as truthful every suspect would be innocent.

The file access you are discussing is the Stardust file which was last modified on Nov 6 while Raffaele was in prison. The reason for that is that he was sharing the file on a P2P program. It is possible that there was activity on this file on that night of the murder but as Massei clearly stated "where the access in question is not even referable to the computer user but [can be referred] to anyone at all around the world [quisque de populo] with a P2P
program requesting the sharing of the files from the dedicated folder on Sollecito’s computer. p309-310. This file continued to be accessed even after Raffaele was in jail because his computer was online and he was sharing it.

They went to clubs together as part of the same group and attended parties at friends they had in common. Rudy expressed interest in dating Knox. I'm sure they didn't get matching BFF tattoos but they knew each other and that people like yourself constantly lie about this is intentional.

There was no coordination or conspiracy. This was not a planned murder. My theory of the murder is that Rudy was supposed to be the fall guy for the theft of Meredith's rent money. Things then got out of hand and escalated quickly when Meredith realized Knox stolen the money. That they didn't know Rudy well actually plays out well since the goal in bringing him over was to set him up.

No. This has nothing to do with Rudy telling the story. The teacher and the police were there and this is the facts of the situation. I'm making no claim if he broke into the school or paid someone to let him sleep there. The teacher maintains that the school was locked and there is no forced entry so those things do add a lot of credit to Rudy having been let in. Rudy had the knife in his bag and could have escaped even without using it because he is a male and a female with her child would not have tried to stop him but he didn't. He was not charged. Further, a lawyer testified that Rudy presented himself at his office and apologized for the laptop. While the cynic in me makes me think there is a 50/50 chance that apology was calculated in case charges were laid it doesn't change the fact that you characterization of him pulling a knife on the school teacher is a complete fabrication.

No one said that. He was involved just not alone. After all he couldn't have been alone because the rape scene was staged while he was at Domus. Something you continue to ignore and will not address.

No. That is not what I said. What I said was that your characterization of what happened at the school was a lie.

The two have no parallels unless you consider entry though a window a signature for a B&E. The lawyers office had a balcony. Someone (likely Rudy) climbed onto the balcony and then while standing on the balcony entered though a window. It is very different than scaling the side of a house and vaulting into a room without making any contact with the window. But yes if you consider breaking a window to get access as Rudy's unique MO then he is the most prolific burglar of all time.

Such as?

Ok, so you have no idea how gastric transit works or what the evidence is in this case yet you state this emphatically.

There is multiple eyewitness testimony that tells when and what she ate and at what time.


There is multiple eyewitness testimony that tells when and what she ate and at what time.


This has zero relevance in this case and reveals that you don't understand on even a superficial level anything about gastric transit or what the arguments regarding it are in this case.

There was a videotape of the autopsy that showed that the medical examiner performed this part of the exam correctly.

How does it help approximate the time of death? Based on what you've said above you clearly haven't even an inkling of what you're talking about. Normally, the stomach contents are not a good indicator of time of death and there are better methods but in this specific case they are the best indicator.

I highly doubt that when presented with this specific argument you'd find 10 experts to refute it. The problem is this issue got muddled in court and the defense did a poor job of making their case about it at the original trial.

At this point I was going to explain it to you but it seems to me you're not really interested in any sort of objective truth here.

this doesn't strike me as totally consistent behaviour

I am not arguing that her behavior that day proves that she is innocent. I'm saying that her behavior that day is not inconsistent with her being innocent. For instance if they had called the police after the police had arrived to create a cover story that would be inconsistent with innocence.

I can argue she is innocent because the likelyhood that she was at the cottage or involved in the sexual assault murder is less than 1% if that.