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04-21-2011 , 02:02 PM
#1
DrO
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Any good book that talks about bubble SNG using another theory(or even personal opinion) than ICM ?

Thank you.
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04-21-2011 , 02:25 PM
#2
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Non-ICM approach to bubble play ?

No.
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04-22-2011 , 02:16 PM
#3
DrO
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Hmm, anything on -$EV Push or -$EV Call do you think ?
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04-22-2011 , 02:27 PM
#4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO
Hmm, anything on -$EV Push or -$EV Call do you think ?
ICM
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04-22-2011 , 02:31 PM
#5
DrO
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ICM will tell me when I should do a +$EV push or call, not a -$EV. It doesn't even tell me when NOT to do a +$EV push or call. I think ICM it's great, just want to see something else for spots i feel it ain't great.
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04-22-2011 , 02:46 PM
#6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO
ICM will tell me when I should do a +$EV push or call, not a -$EV. It doesn't even tell me when NOT to do a +$EV push or call. I think ICM it's great, just want to see something else for spots i feel it ain't great.
Don't you ALWAYS want to make +$EV calls/pushes ?
You can sometimes not make +$EV call/push according to SNG wizard, if suspect villains range to be different than this showing in wizard,
for example you suspect middle stack fishy player calling KJo+ when he should be calling JJ/QQ+ . and you dont make +$EV any card pushes , because when you adjust the range it is not any 2
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04-22-2011 , 04:11 PM
#7
DrO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aielex
Don't you ALWAYS want to make +$EV calls/pushes ?
Of course you would like all your decision to be +$EV but you can give up on some +$EV spots if the other players are crossing fire among themselfs, cause that by itself can be more +$EV than say a marginal +$EV push. On the other side you might want to take a slightly -$EV call if all that's waiting for you if you don't it's blinding down or an +$EV after you got your whole stack stolen cause you've been waiting for QQ+.

I'm not completely sure of this and that is why I would like a book, but it seems there isn't any, at least famous.
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04-23-2011 , 12:04 PM
#8
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thats what the edge is for in sngwiz
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04-23-2011 , 01:35 PM
#9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO
Of course you would like all your decision to be +$EV but you can give up on some +$EV spots if the other players are crossing fire among themselfs, cause that by itself can be more +$EV than say a marginal +$EV push. On the other side you might want to take a slightly -$EV call if all that's waiting for you if you don't it's blinding down or an +$EV after you got your whole stack stolen cause you've been waiting for QQ+.

I'm not completely sure of this and that is why I would like a book, but it seems there isn't any, at least famous.
ICM is a mathematical tool, not a crutch to be used blindly. If ICM tells you that a certain play is +$EV, but another play is MORE +$EV if certain things happen, then it's up to you to figure out the likelyhood of those other things.

The whole point of ICM is that it boils down decisions to that of making money, not grabbing chips and takes into account the fact that busting out means $0. It's different from a cash game where you WOULD take each +$cEV gamble if you could afford it (and if you coudln't afford it, move down)
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04-23-2011 , 01:41 PM
#10
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Yeah, I agree with you jedi, that its why I'm looking for something to help me decide when not to use it or when to go against it. You're statement, if I understood it corectly, its the whole purpose of the post. Btw, do you know anything that can help me with this, maybe even an article as I'm not beign sucessful in finding any good one.

Thanks
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04-23-2011 , 01:46 PM
#11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jessah13
thats what the edge is for in sngwiz
I'm not sure I understand how to use the edge in this situation. Can you explain it in more detail please ? Sorry if its obvious.
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04-24-2011 , 07:54 PM
#12
MidnightToker
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I do believe Arnold Snyder disagrees with the ICM chip valuation model. He has a few books out, the most prominent are Poker Tournament Formula and Poker Tournament Formula 2.

No review from me, you'll have to make up your own opinion of them.
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04-25-2011 , 12:08 PM
#13
DrO
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Thanks MidnightToker will take a look at those.
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04-28-2011 , 08:35 AM
#14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrO
I'm not sure I understand how to use the edge in this situation. Can you explain it in more detail please ? Sorry if its obvious.
See the last FAQ on this page.
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06-20-2011 , 11:16 AM
#15
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OP may be looking for advice on when to take -EV shoves cause the blinds are about to cripple us etc?

edit: whoops just noticed this threads a bit old
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06-20-2011 , 04:30 PM
#16
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The assertion that a shove is -EV is based on the validity of the ICM valuation, and not everyone agrees that it's the definitive model that should be used.
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