What were PNL authors thinking? After reading HOC i give PNL a 5 out of 10. Harrington was right when he said on the pokercast that PNL was too much devoted to pot commiment. I don't even want to see a 6 max book from those PNL authors. Now if Harringtons next book can be Harrington on Shorthanded Cash Games it will be a dream come true. Mason trust me this book would bring good profits.

Right, lets have a book from someone who had his hay day xxx years ago and really doesn't play anymore about online six-max and for the love of God, let's not have one from known winners in the biggest online games.

Well, I see PNL as the first in a quite a long series personally, and am fine with the emphasis, if indeed they are picking quite specific subjects in each volume.

It's amazing how PNLv2 has suddenly became a 6-max book.

Not suddenly, there was a huge thread a year ago, where teh 2+2 community specifically asked the authors for 6max emphasis. (if that ends up being so is another matter)

Emphasis and it being a strictly 6-max are two different things. I don't believe any of the authors said that this is going to be a 6-max book like people in this thread are leading everyone to believe.

Agreed.

Well let's see, Harrington says it's a "key" element of NL cash games, and then talks about it for - what? - 4 pages out of 800? Hmmm.

The main way PNL is losing out here is that HoC essentially comes out as a single book, detouring any criticism about lack of content. SPR is groundbreaking stuff (in publishing terms) and thus deserved the real estate it got, it's just hard to know how the whole thing will balance out because we don't know what the second half of the "book" will contain. There are pros and cons to doing it that way.

Since the published (that is non-vid) material on six-max is zero, anything with sixmax content is a sixmax book ... the crowds are starving !

Haha, exactly my point!

Hence my comment on I find it humorous how quickly it has become a 6-max book when the authors stated that it wasn't a 6-max book.

I don't see what the big deal is, just get them both. I plan on getting both PNL & I'm awaiting the HoC book. As for Dan being past his "hay" day years ago I don't know. He just won the WPT at the Bike last year against the Dragon Pham. Not bad for a has been.

LOL_Donkaments

It's an ego thing.

Being a good teacher doesn't require that the teacher be a good practitioner as well.

Depends on whether you teach an introductionairy course or state of the art cutting edge stuff.

Dont get me wrong, I think that Dan is a great player with great books, but Flynn and Metha are more specialized in the dicipline that is online 6max games (Which Dan admits to not playing) and I think is very wrong to put them down.

It is volume 1 of a hopefully very comprehensive work and I for one admire that they are so thourough in their presentation instead of just skipping all the basics and delivering a half told story.

D&B has a 6 max book comming august i think
http://www.dandbpoker.com/book_detail.php?id=34

[QUOTE=JasonInDallas;3432546][QUOTE=Gelford;3427941]lets have a book from someone who had his hay day xxx years ago and really doesn't play anymore about online six-max and for the love of God, let's not have one from known winners in the biggest online games. No, it doesn't. Just ask anyone at the top of their game who takes lessons from someone who's not nearly as good at their craft. Tiger Woods comes immediately to mind - he takes lessons from a guy who isn't even good enough at golf to play competitively in a third-tier tour, and Butch is widely regarded as the best swing coach in the world despite the fact that he's not good enough to compete himself.

Practicing a craft compared to teaching and theorizing about it are two distinctly different things requiring completely different skills.

And good lord, look at guys like Helmuth or Farha: they're close to the top of their game and are terrible teachers, at least as far as instructional texts go.

If you'll only take instruction from guys at the top of the game, then you're severely hamstringing yourself.

(P.S. - There's no need for the sarcasm, and while you might think it adds to your argument the converse is actually true.)

There's something to be said for being thorough, which is why I think too much is made over the "focusing on SPR too much" thing. I recall one of the authors saying that there was at least the potential for a number of volumes. That might seem optimistic now, but if that was the mindset they had going into it then it seems to make sense that they would spend more time on each concept as they went.

Besides, it's not as if HoH 1 was a complete treatise on tournament NLHE before v2 appeared either. I thought PNL was solid, and would be more than happy to see v2 done just as well.

one of the authors sunny mehta a few months back posted his pt screenshot at 1/2 nl..pure ownage

I think something is being seriously overlooked in regards to the NL texts that are available. I don't mean to pick on you, lavaman. I only quoted your post because it inspired the following thoughts.

It wasn't long ago that there were no books on no-limit cash games. There were a lot of theories thrown around as to why. I always believed that was largely due to how difficult it is to write something concise on a subject that has so many factors to consider in every decision. Bluntly put, it's extremely hard to write a book on no-limit cash games. There were no books at all on the subject. As a result, many people complained. Now there are books and some of us are complaining that every little detail is not explained to the utmost detail. I see this as being rather absurd. It's hard enough to write a book on the subject at all.

Many of these topics could take multiple volumes to cover. There could be numerous books just on the topic 6-max. I think everyone needs to lighten up a little, give the authors a little bit of credit, and appreciate that someone is taking the time to take on such a difficult subject and share their knowledge with you. Forgive them if every concept isn't explained in extreme detail. No-limit cash games are very complex and situational. It's simply not possible to explain everything in one or even two 800 page books.

There is plenty of room on my bookshelf for both of these wonderful texts. I'm still awaiting HOC, but everything I've seen tells me I will not be disappointed. The concepts covered in PNL, though not necessarily unfamiliar to me, were put in a way that I had never really seriously considered, and its concepts, namely SPR, have netted me quite a handsome profit in live, full ring cash games--it is especially helpful for short-stackers, since I am usually unable to buy in for more than 50-100 BB's in live games.

lol can you remember his stats?

Forgetting Super/System, are we? Doyle fit a very thorough, comprehensive, and intelligent text on the finer points of NLH cash games into about 40 pages. Damn, it might even be reasonable to say that PNL and HoC are both essentially follow-ups to S/S that further explore and elaborate on Doyle's thesis. We can't be forgetting here that Super/System basically introduced fundamental NLH concepts like implied odds, fold equity, and the metagame before those terms even existed. Of course I love twoplustwo's recent splurge of NLH books, as they really deeply explore the nuances of the game, but truthfully they're really putting Doyle's chapter of S/S under a magnifying glass. Credit where credit's due!

Dude, if you read SuperSystem and go into NLHE without much else, you're gonna lose a lot.