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why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP

09-27-2020 , 08:15 AM
OOP range
44+
A7s+
AJo+
K9s+
KJo+
QTs+
QJo (24% of the time)

IPP range
99
TT (93% of time)
JJ (18% of time
A3-A4s
ATs
AJs (8% of time)
AQs
65s (24% of time)

flop
T96 monotone

With KJ no BDFD facing a 25% pot bet GTO+ is folding 0% calling 1 to 70% and raising 25% 71 to 100%

With KQ in the same scenario GTO+ is folding 26% of the time.

so why are we supposed to have some folds with KQ and not KJ? Both give us a GS with KQ we need a J and with KJ we need a Q I assume it has something to do with blockers just not seeing anything that should make that big of a difference. I know KQ blocks AQ and KJ blocks AJ and IP has a lot more AQ in their range as they're barely playing AJ. So Kq blocks more bluffs but is that all their is to it?
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-27-2020 , 09:17 AM
This sort of how many angels on the head of a pin lunacy is not a BQ question
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-27-2020 , 09:19 AM
post ss?

there is 0% chance KQ is a fold facing 1/4psb
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-27-2020 , 10:28 AM
will in a bit.
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-27-2020 , 10:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixfour
This sort of how many angels on the head of a pin lunacy is not a BQ question
i only posted that much detail because i figured the folks out there smart enough to answer might want that type of info.
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-27-2020 , 10:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dude45
i only posted that much detail because i figured the folks out there smart enough to answer might want that type of info.
It's not even close to a beginner's question.
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-28-2020 , 10:40 PM
Maybe because KJ blocks Jacks? But I don't understand why KQ is a fold.
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-28-2020 , 11:33 PM
How do you have a BDFD on a monotone flop? I guess you could say every hand does, except for the ones that had a 4-card flush draw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brokenstars
post ss?

there is 0% chance KQ is a fold facing 1/4psb
Probably because IP's range has that flop absolutely smashed. We're completely dead to a lot of the betting range and our overs are usually not good otherwise.

AQ is 100% while AJ is 8%. That's probably why I guess. KJ is less dominated and blocks less of the folding range when we x/r.

A lot of the time AQ would probably check back but in this case what else does IP use for bluffs?

The most important thing is that solver output depends on the input. If you feed it poor parameters the output will be useless or worse, misleading.

25% is a horrible bet size for IP here unless SPR is really small. Like 90% of his range is air, a set or a flush. All of those hands should want to be bombing it. I guess you can use smaller sizing with JJ/ATs though if you balance them.
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 01:15 AM
Reposted the question in the theory forum with pictures
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 01:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
How do you have a BDFD on a monotone flop? I guess you could say every hand does, except for the ones that had a 4-card flush draw.



Probably because IP's range has that flop absolutely smashed. We're completely dead to a lot of the betting range and our overs are usually not good otherwise.

AQ is 100% while AJ is 8%. That's probably why I guess. KJ is less dominated and blocks less of the folding range when we x/r.

A lot of the time AQ would probably check back but in this case what else does IP use for bluffs?

The most important thing is that solver output depends on the input. If you feed it poor parameters the output will be useless or worse, misleading.

25% is a horrible bet size for IP here unless SPR is really small. Like 90% of his range is air, a set or a flush. All of those hands should want to be bombing it. I guess you can use smaller sizing with JJ/ATs though if you balance them.
IP has the the option to bet 25% 50 % or 100%. I just happen to be looking at when they bet 25%. Just off the top of my head I can't remember how often it says to bet 25%
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 01:26 AM
Maybe I'm getting the lingo wrong but if flop has 3 diamonds and I have 1 diamond in my hand isn't that a I card BDFD
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 04:32 AM
not sure what i was thinking but obviously that would just be A FD
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 04:39 AM
since people are replying to this thread i brought this over from the one I started in the theory forum which i asked a mod to close.

ok now to my question why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ

oop range
by , on Flickr



IP range
by , on Flickr



flop

by , on Flickr

KQ and KJ frequencies

by , on Flickr


Small Caveat im using poker snowie free ranges for IP player. They have AJ in their range 8 percent of the time and AQ in their range 100 percent of the time. Which means KQ would block more bluffs from IP . Is that why the solver prefers KJ for oop
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 04:41 AM
i'll post with monotone later

Last edited by dude45; 09-29-2020 at 04:42 AM. Reason: XXXX
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote
09-29-2020 , 06:36 AM
same situation but with a monotone flop

by , on Flickr

KJ


by , on Flickr

KQ
by , on Flickr

Last edited by dude45; 09-29-2020 at 06:42 AM. Reason: add content
why does the solver prefer KJ over KQ for OOP Quote

      
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