Hand #1 - I'd raise/call turn.

Hand #2 - Any stats on villian? I'd call and make a note.

I would bet the river on QQ hand. About 1/3rd pot should get calls from other pairs.

second hand, yeah, fold flop. some of the time at least this is a missed AK but I suspect mostly it's sets.

I saw your graphs, I see you started winning at Zoom, but I dont know how! By tightened up all round, I dont mean Im a nit, I just mean Im folding more to raises and 3bets and not opening 100% sb and btn

oooh, raise/call turn is MUCH better. Give him a chance to call with his flush draw.

PT4 downloaded and running. Got my HUD set up etc. Very pleased. I cant work out how to move the stat boxes though (and they are slightly in the wrong places) does anyone know how to shift them around? Please help! ctrl + left mouse moves them only on one table, how to move on all tables *and* save positions?

Also, I have AKs on the BTN. Its folded to CO who open shoves $3.86 (at 5nl zoom). Easy fold right?

Hand 1 - bet/call river, his betsizing screams AK to me so maybe small bet and hope he spazzes out

Hand 2 - I saw this yesterday on 8 high board and called with TT as I couldn't understand why he'd do that with a good hand, and villain showed A8 (he obviously binked turn but meh), so I'd include Jx in his possible shoving range also. Think I'd call here tbh as just dont know why villain would do this with a set?

Edit: Hadn't read spoiler for first hand. Think villain would def call a small value bet given his hand.
The more i look at hand 2 the more I hate how villain plays it so I'd def be calling as he looks like such a bad player, or maybe I'm levelling myself as he knows that I know etc etc

Chad - where did you downloard PT4 from? Can only find downloads for PT3 on their website?

In PT3 there's a PT icon on the table, click that and choose "save layout". The stat boxes will appear like that on all new tables you open. Might be different in PT4 though.

snapcall

Issue I have with hand 1 is what we do if he c/r's here, we're behind QJ and losing to any Tx which is a non-trivial chance of him holding. It's a little weak but I just think value is too thin to go for there.

In terms of hand 2 I pretty much put him on AA given the way he played. His coldcall of my 4-bet screams he wants the pfr to raise so he can get us all AI pre. I don't see anyone with JJ or less just calling here and even AKs would be a stretch given the action before them and how tight everyone plays in Zoom....actually the more I think about it, SB with no holdings would nearly always fast-fold. For villain to have not done that, then not ff to the raiser and then not ff to my 4-bet totally narrows their range down to AA in my mind and am feeling a lot better about my fold.

dunna: https://www.pokertracker.com/products/PT4/beta.php

really snapcall Aks to an open shove? Im very inclined to think this is always AA in zoom. please disuade me.

Thanks Chad - found it eventually!

Even if you're being generous with villains range, say: QQ+, AK, you still don't have the equity to call an open shove for 77bb.

Risking 76bb to win 78bb gives you pot odds of 1.026:1 which is not very good. You need equity greater than 49.34% to make it worthwhile, which means you'd have to include weaker aces and other non-pairs in villain's range to make it a good call. If you know villain has exactly 22, then it's a slim call, but any other pair is too good for you.

Without a solid read that villain could be doing this with worse than AK, this is an easy fold.

I was wondering about this. Maybe one to post for discussion in full. for now there's this!


PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: $12.50
SB: $10.86
BB: $4.20
UTG: $10.30
MP: $29.81
Hero (CO): $10.00

SB posts SB $0.05, BB posts BB $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has Q K

UTG raises to $0.35, MP calls $0.35, Hero calls $0.35, fold, SB calls $0.30, fold

Flop: ($1.50, 4 players) K K K
SB bets $0.85, UTG raises to $1.80, fold, Hero raises to $2.75, fold, UTG raises to $9.95 and is all-in, Hero calls $6.90 and is all-in

Turn: ($21.65, 2 players) Q

River: ($21.65, 2 players) A

UTG shows Q Q (Full House, Kings full of Queens) (Pre 69%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
Hero shows Q K (Four of a Kind, Kings) (Pre 31%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
Hero wins $20.68

I'm calling behind on the flop. I really want to get both villains' stacks with such a monster flop and am not worried about anyone outdrawing me.

You're really hoping something like QA come on the turn and river, where players are likely to improve to a great hand that is just not as great as yours.

Nice!

But i've called some open-shoves and 3/4 times, villains range is WIDE, like tilt wide, open shove with 79o, Q4s and A9o. The 4th time this happened he had 88 and only 40bb, tho I had AA

Yeah - they don't actually need very many Ax hands or worse in their range to make the call profitable. And of course it's an easy call with AA.

Zoom poker is the best think I've ever seen. I've played 6000 hands at nl10 and i make 120$. Congratulation Pokerstars.

I think the majority view would be that its a great thing for poker. congratulations on your success!

For me, I'm folding this pre even with position due to reverse implied odds at zoom (eg if we hit a K or Q are we ever really sure we're ahead in a game where most people are only playing premiums).

As played I agree with gothninja that I'm just calling the UTG raise here and hoping that the sb comes along with us.

Problem with either calling or raising is that it indicate strength BUT if we re-raise here after a lead and a raise we pretty much define our hand to the case K (can't believe you got paid off tbh) while if we coldcall behind the raise we are leaving open the option for either SB or UTG to keep repping the king and putting us on a small pp, thus getting more money into the pot.

Best case scenario we call, SB re-raises again, UTG re-raises, we call, repeat until all stacks are in the pot but even if one doesn't go all the way we still likely get more cash in the pot then we generally would by repping the 4th king.

For all those saying that Zoom is super-nitty, why not compare a random sample of table-VPIP for the equivalent non-Zoom games and see how wide the difference is. It definitely is a bit tighter, but I'd be surprised if the difference between 10NL Zoom and twenty random 10NL ring games was more than 5-6%.

Time will tell. Zoom is certainly fun to play, and if it attracts a greater % of fish in the longer run then it may be more profitable than normal games. TBH though I think it's greatest success will turn out to be as a rake machine for stars.

oh lord, please give me the willpower to stay away from zoom omahahahahaha.

Nothing wrong with that imo.

>300 hands per hour single tabling is going to generate more rake, but it has a lot going for it from a beginner's point of view... Folding is much more attractive, which keeps me out of trouble and encourages me to be very selective (periods of dead cards just fly by) and avoids being results oriented by not seeing how folded hands play out. Randoms every hand, preventing me from reading too much into stats, table dynamics and recent behaviour - keeps me focused on the "correct" plays, proper odds calculations, ranges, etc without getting too fancy.

Overall I think zoom is really helping improve my game very rapidly.

have to agree with this. I find rush previously, and zoom now, allow me to cut down on my number of tables and tile them rather than stack while still getting the same number of hands/hour and this leads to improving my game.

With 12+ tables stacked it becomes hard to keep track of action (eg did you pfr or flat, should you c-bet or would you be donking) while 4 table zoom I'm able to keep track of the entire flow of the hand on each table. I also find I am able to get into more interesting spots, open my game up slightly to play hands in positions I usually wouldn't while tightening up against 3-bets and in the blinds due to not feeling constrained to play a certain number of hands to ensure not getting distracted or losing focus.

Also agree that the lack of a hud atm, and reduction in reads on players, is making me think more about each hand and the action so far in a way I haven't since pokerace hud hit the scene so I think for people on sites like here and ftr it will help improve our games immensely, if we let it.

Another benefit I find that I think the casual players and fish will like enough as well is the ability to sit right down at a game. I know for me one of the things I dread when coming home from work is knowing I'm going to have to sit at the lobby for 30+ minutes just waiting to get seated at 12+ good tables but now I know that as soon as I get home and am still feeling fresh I willbe straight into 4 tables and playing. Casuals, while they don't table-select, should also enjoy this speed of getting into games and people that know they may be a little weaker should prefer it as well as it will allow them to play without worrying about getting bumhunted or seeing games break when they sit-out etc.

Yes, zoom will likely increase profits for PS but with the benefits it brings to us I can't really begrudge them that, especially if my winrate continues to be 3x or positive even (lol) what it was before zoom.

Is this really all about NL2, 5 and 10 ???
I am wondering if anybody here itt playing these "high limits" ??

Zoom is fun

I don't see what much point a HUD has to offer, yes you get reads and stats from them but a lot of building reads has to be done away from the tables with you having a good look through your database. Everything is pretty much vacuum play.

Zoom has seemed to have attracted more fish but the regs are also really bad.
Because stacks get deeper quite quickly, not many people know what to do deep play.

Also what is up with this business with people flatting 4bets and just c/f boards?

DonRolando, i play 25nl and 50nl zoom