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when are we folding here? when are we folding here?

04-10-2012 , 07:32 PM
villain is 16/11


I was planning to betfold the turn if raised. Is the correct play to call the raise on the flop?


Merge - $0.04 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

MP: $4.41
MP+1: $3.11
CO: $4.00
BTN: $2.40
SB: $3.88
Hero (BB): $4.00
UTG: $5.37
UTG+1: $2.64

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.04, CO posts DB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.10) Hero has A K

fold, fold, fold, fold, CO checks, fold, SB calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.16, CO calls $0.12, fold

Flop: ($0.36, 2 players) 7 A 8
Hero bets $0.32, CO raises to $0.72, Hero calls $0.40

Turn: ($1.80, 2 players) 5
Hero bets $0.25, CO calls $0.25

River: ($2.30, 2 players) 8
Hero bets $0.30, fold
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 07:36 PM
Why even bet on the turn if you are going to give villain such fantastic odds to continue?
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 07:47 PM
Yeah, if you're going to bet the turn, you have to make a bigger bet. Making such a small bet is giving villain great odds to chase almost any draw, and, if you make a habbit of betting big with big hands and smaller with slightly more marginal hands, could even induce him to raise you as a bluff.
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 07:50 PM
Why did you decide to call the flop raise then lead the turn?
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 07:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
Why did you decide to call the flop raise then lead the turn?

Call the flop because i have top pair top kicker, I lead the turn because I don't want him to bluff me.
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 08:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wafflehouse1
Why even bet on the turn if you are going to give villain such fantastic odds to continue?


Should have bet more then? I guess I did not want to get pot committed. I think in the long run it makes sense to bet more here.
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:01 PM
Do you have any stats/reads on the villain? You need to start putting villain on a range of hands... What types of hands do you think the villain is raising the flop with (a flush draw, a straight draw, two pair, sets, a king with a weaker kicker)? Are you ahead or behind of this range? If you think that villain likes to bluff a lot, will betting the turn stop them from bluffing, or are they capable of raising your turn bet as bluff?

I've noticed in several of your threads that you like to bet because you think it will prevent villains from bluffing you... While this may be true (a) if your bet sizes vary according to the strength of your hand, better opponents will pick up on this tell and bluff raise you when you bet small and (b) if you really think that your opponent will try to bluff you, it's ok to check and trick them into putting more money into the pot instead of betting and forcing them to fold all of their garbage.

I think your approach actually might work pretty well at the stakes you are playing because your opponents are playing relatively straightforwardly, but if you want to move up and play against tougher competition, you might run into some problems...
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 09:40 PM
You're only beating a flush draw. Either fold to the raise on the flop (it's often 2pr or a set) or check-fold the turn. Calling the raise and then making a small donk bet doesn't achieve anything.
Since the flush draw didn't get there, you're not gonna get any value on the river, so just check it down, or check-call if villain bets his missed draws.
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:46 PM
Your play until the turn seems fine.

Turn - bet $1.20-$1.50 here, this is a great card for you, all draws missed! Dont bet small to get villains to bet into or bluff into us as this wont happen enough to make your play +EV and will price in all drawing hands.

River - I like check-calling here! If we bet $1.20-$1.50 on the turn this leaves us with about $2, so we can profitably call if we check and he shoves. This river card again is a brick, we are only paying off a flopped set, A8, K8 and 78. Basically I think villain will bluff enough on this brick river card enough to make a check the best play! If we were to bet for example would we get called by anything worse than our hand? No, check and hope he bet/shoves

Villain had 9T or K4 clubs btw
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigoldnit
Do you have any stats/reads on the villain? You need to start putting villain on a range of hands... What types of hands do you think the villain is raising the flop with (a flush draw, a straight draw, two pair, sets, a king with a weaker kicker)? Are you ahead or behind of this range? If you think that villain likes to bluff a lot, will betting the turn stop them from bluffing, or are they capable of raising your turn bet as bluff?

I've noticed in several of your threads that you like to bet because you think it will prevent villains from bluffing you... While this may be true (a) if your bet sizes vary according to the strength of your hand, better opponents will pick up on this tell and bluff raise you when you bet small and (b) if you really think that your opponent will try to bluff you, it's ok to check and trick them into putting more money into the pot instead of betting and forcing them to fold all of their garbage.

I think your approach actually might work pretty well at the stakes you are playing because your opponents are playing relatively straightforwardly, but if you want to move up and play against tougher competition, you might run into some problems...
I agree a 100%
when are we folding here? Quote
04-10-2012 , 10:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
You're only beating a flush draw. Either fold to the raise on the flop (it's often 2pr or a set) or check-fold the turn. Calling the raise and then making a small donk bet doesn't achieve anything.
Since the flush draw didn't get there, you're not gonna get any value on the river, so just check it down, or check-call if villain bets his missed draws.
Well i could also be beating a smaller kicker as well as any flush and straight draws which due to my bad bet sizing was not doing anything except giving away the strength of my hand and fantastic calling odds.
when are we folding here? Quote
04-11-2012 , 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elektrik23
Call the flop because i have top pair top kicker, I lead the turn because I don't want him to bluff me.
Betting that weak hes more likely to bluff you (well player dependant) or call for cheap and outdraw you
when are we folding here? Quote

      
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