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09-19-2012 , 08:45 PM
Hey Guys,

Quite a rudimentary solution i'm sure, just had some concerns with my final decision and math involved

£1/1 LIVE NLHE

Im sitting short stacked with around £45, Mid pos has around £120, Late has around £70

Hero AKo UTG+1 - raise to £8

MP calls

LP re raises to £16

Hero call, MP call

Flop 10103r

Hero Check, MP checks, EP bet 1/2 pot.

MP check,

My initial assumption was that he had top pocket pairs JJ QQ maybe KK( he was short stackedish too) therefore I folded, however should i have gone all in when Villian raised Pre?

thanks
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09-19-2012 , 08:52 PM
Quote:
...however should i have gone all in when Villian raised Pre?
Yes. You are wayyyy too short to play post flop poker. You have called off 1/3 your stack with a hand that you will have to fold on 2/3 of flops.
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09-19-2012 , 09:00 PM
Once you get raised this is the easiest preflop shove ever.
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09-19-2012 , 09:38 PM
I understand your logic pre flop, but say my guess was correct pre flop(considering his stack size, raise) and he had a pocket pair, going Allin pre would have potentiallycost me my stack instead of the 16 it cost to see the flop. this was my initial thought pre flop
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09-19-2012 , 09:47 PM
*sigh*
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09-19-2012 , 10:04 PM
why shouldn't I feel vindicated?
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09-20-2012 , 12:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolongeravailable
why shouldn't I feel vindicated?
1) Fold equity
2) Dead money
3) Position
4) AK wants to see all 5 board cards
5) He doesn't always have a pocket pair

If he accidentally exposed his cards after raising and you saw he has 88 or QQ you fist-pump shove preflop.



Last edited by Cry Me A River; 09-20-2012 at 12:15 AM.
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09-20-2012 , 01:46 AM
no reads on villian since you sat down?
why are we buying in short?
why are you putting villian on such a narrow range?
why would we flat oop, shortstacked with a strong hand?
lol at minraise by villian..
and lol quite a rudimentary solution i'm sure

if we are playing in a vacuum bud, we are happily getting it all in pre.
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09-20-2012 , 06:06 AM
45bb effective, have AKo, shove.
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09-20-2012 , 07:33 AM
ok, and what is the minimum BB pre i shouldnt go all in with? 100bb? /would it then be a raise/call?

for me, re raising pre live with AKo is suicide considering the standard.

Ive never seen a person re raise pre at this standard without having top pair
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09-20-2012 , 07:57 AM
You do realise that all in pre AK is roughly 50/50 against all pairs except KK and AA? That includes QQ. It crushes hands like AQ and AJ and is a favourite over all other non paired hands

Edit: I have played a fair bit live and even up to 3/3 have stacked off pre against hands like AQ, AJ, 99 etc
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09-20-2012 , 08:12 AM
yes I understand AK to be a slight dog pre vs top pairs.
I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read
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09-20-2012 , 08:17 AM
So what exactly do you want us to say? OK, it was an awesome call pre flop and world class laydown on the flop. You should move up and play 5/10 with reads like that
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09-20-2012 , 08:27 AM
Thanks, but I'm not ready for 5/10 just yet.

thanks for the input guys
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09-20-2012 , 09:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolongeravailable
ok, and what is the minimum BB pre i shouldnt go all in with? 100bb? /would it then be a raise/call?

for me, re raising pre live with AKo is suicide considering the standard.

Ive never seen a person re raise pre at this standard without having top pair
1. Player and situation dependant. The situation you described means you should stack off.

2. I find that...surprising...but anyway since you know best, why are you asking us?

3. See 2.
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09-20-2012 , 10:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolongeravailable
I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolongeravailable
My initial assumption was that he had top pocket pairs JJ QQ maybe KK
Based on pot odds you need about 37% equity to make shoving profitable assuming he never folds (he folds sometimes). If your range above is correct (it isn't) then:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.580% 40.33% 00.25% 124303068 771948.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 59.420% 59.17% 00.25% 182367756 771948.00 { KK-JJ }

Shoveshoveshovesove.
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09-20-2012 , 10:16 AM
anks for that. So from calculation it's a shove as the equity is lower than the strength of my hand vs his (at best) perceived range
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09-20-2012 , 11:11 AM
It's a shove because:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
1) Fold equity
2) Dead money
3) Position
4) AK wants to see all 5 board cards
5) He doesn't always have a pocket pair
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09-20-2012 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolongeravailable
yes I understand AK to be a slight dog pre vs top pairs.
I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read
If your read is has exactly KK+ then the optimal play is fold pre. Your options were limited to shoving or folding. Calling is just not viable with those stack sizes
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09-20-2012 , 01:13 PM
Easy shove all-in over the re-raise to 16.
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09-21-2012 , 08:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego05
Easy shove all-in over the re-raise to 16.
Yeah, iwas being a nit, didnt want to lose my buy in. Plus the guy who raised seemed to know what he was doing.

Thanks for the input guys
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09-21-2012 , 09:18 PM
SHOVELLLLLL PRE
ez game!
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