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09-19-2012 , 08:45 PM

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

Hey Guys,

Quite a rudimentary solution i'm sure, just had some concerns with my final decision and math involved

£1/1 LIVE NLHE

Im sitting short stacked with around £45, Mid pos has around £120, Late has around £70

Hero AKo UTG+1 - raise to £8

MP calls

LP re raises to £16

Hero call, MP call

Flop 10103r

Hero Check, MP checks, EP bet 1/2 pot.

MP check,

My initial assumption was that he had top pocket pairs JJ QQ maybe KK( he was short stackedish too) therefore I folded, however should i have gone all in when Villian raised Pre?

thanks

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09-19-2012 , 08:52 PM

denks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,028

Quote:

...however should i have gone all in when Villian raised Pre?

Yes. You are wayyyy too short to play post flop poker. You have called off 1/3 your stack with a hand that you will have to fold on 2/3 of flops.

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09-19-2012 , 09:00 PM

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,783

Once you get raised this is the easiest preflop shove ever.

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09-19-2012 , 09:38 PM

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

I understand your logic pre flop, but say my guess was correct pre flop(considering his stack size, raise) and he had a pocket pair, going Allin pre would have potentiallycost me my stack instead of the 16 it cost to see the flop. this was my initial thought pre flop

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09-19-2012 , 09:47 PM

denks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,028

*sigh*

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09-19-2012 , 10:04 PM

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

why shouldn't I feel vindicated?

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09-20-2012 , 12:09 AM

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolongeravailable

why shouldn't I feel vindicated?

1) Fold equity
2) Dead money
3) Position
4) AK wants to see all 5 board cards
5) He doesn't always have a pocket pair

If he accidentally exposed his cards after raising and you saw he has 88 or QQ you fist-pump shove preflop.

Last edited by Cry Me A River; 09-20-2012 at 12:15 AM.

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09-20-2012 , 01:46 AM

LosingShark

adept

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,008

no reads on villian since you sat down?
why are we buying in short?
why are you putting villian on such a narrow range?
why would we flat oop, shortstacked with a strong hand?
lol at minraise by villian..
and lol quite a rudimentary solution i'm sure

if we are playing in a vacuum bud, we are happily getting it all in pre.

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09-20-2012 , 06:06 AM

Mr Beer

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,965

45bb effective, have AKo, shove.

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09-20-2012 , 07:33 AM

#10

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

ok, and what is the minimum BB pre i shouldnt go all in with? 100bb? /would it then be a raise/call?

for me, re raising pre live with AKo is suicide considering the standard.

Ive never seen a person re raise pre at this standard without having top pair

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09-20-2012 , 07:57 AM

#11

denks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,028

You do realise that all in pre AK is roughly 50/50 against all pairs except KK and AA? That includes QQ. It crushes hands like AQ and AJ and is a favourite over all other non paired hands

Edit: I have played a fair bit live and even up to 3/3 have stacked off pre against hands like AQ, AJ, 99 etc

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09-20-2012 , 08:12 AM

#12

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

yes I understand AK to be a slight dog pre vs top pairs.
I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read

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09-20-2012 , 08:17 AM

#13

denks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 7,028

So what exactly do you want us to say? OK, it was an awesome call pre flop and world class laydown on the flop. You should move up and play 5/10 with reads like that

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09-20-2012 , 08:27 AM

#14

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

Thanks, but I'm not ready for 5/10 just yet.

thanks for the input guys

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09-20-2012 , 09:43 AM

#15

Mr Beer

banned

Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 5,965

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolongeravailable

1. Player and situation dependant. The situation you described means you should stack off.

2. I find that...surprising...but anyway since you know best, why are you asking us?

3. See 2.

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09-20-2012 , 10:02 AM

#16

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,783

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolongeravailable

I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolongeravailable

My initial assumption was that he had top pocket pairs JJ QQ maybe KK

Based on pot odds you need about 37% equity to make shoving profitable assuming he never folds (he folds sometimes). If your range above is correct (it isn't) then:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 40.580% 40.33% 00.25% 124303068 771948.00 { AKo }
Hand 1: 59.420% 59.17% 00.25% 182367756 771948.00 { KK-JJ }

Shoveshoveshovesove.

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09-20-2012 , 10:16 AM

#17

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

anks for that. So from calculation it's a shove as the equity is lower than the strength of my hand vs his (at best) perceived range

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09-20-2012 , 11:11 AM

#18

Cry Me A River

Orange is the new Green

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 23,783

It's a shove because:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cry Me A River

1) Fold equity
2) Dead money
3) Position
4) AK wants to see all 5 board cards
5) He doesn't always have a pocket pair

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09-20-2012 , 12:47 PM

#19

J9Suited

adept

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,156

Quote:

Originally Posted by nolongeravailable

yes I understand AK to be a slight dog pre vs top pairs.
I was concerned as to whether it is the optimal long term play considering my read

If your read is has exactly KK+ then the optimal play is fold pre. Your options were limited to shoving or folding. Calling is just not viable with those stack sizes

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09-20-2012 , 01:13 PM

#20

Lego05

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 25,682

Easy shove all-in over the re-raise to 16.

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09-21-2012 , 08:51 PM

#21

nolongeravailable

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lego05

Easy shove all-in over the re-raise to 16.

Yeah, iwas being a nit, didnt want to lose my buy in. Plus the guy who raised seemed to know what he was doing.

Thanks for the input guys

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09-21-2012 , 09:18 PM

#22

ExpectedV

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 14,520

SHOVELLLLLL PRE
ez game!

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