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What went wrong? What went wrong?

02-21-2016 , 07:39 PM
This is a hand that I played and I played horribly, how should have played this hand?

888 Poker - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 36 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
SB: 60.5 BB (VPIP: 15.91, PFR: 6.82, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 44)
Hero (BB): 87.5 BB
UTG: 309 BB (VPIP: 13.95, PFR: 9.30, 3Bet Preflop: 6.25, Hands: 44)
UTG+1: 45 BB (VPIP: 31.82, PFR: 9.09, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 22)
MP: 40 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 14)
MP+1: 88.5 BB (VPIP: 63.41, PFR: 60.98, 3Bet Preflop: 62.50, Hands: 41)
CO: 111.5 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 11.36, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 44)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 3.5 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 3 BB, Hero raises to 7 BB, fold, SB calls 3.5 BB

Flop: (17.5 BB, 2 players) 2 7 3
SB checks, Hero bets 6 BB, SB raises to 19 BB, Hero raises to 32 BB, SB raises to 45 BB, Hero calls 13 BB

Turn: (107.5 BB, 2 players) 6
SB bets 8.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 8.5 BB

River: (124.5 BB, 2 players) 6

SB shows 3 3 (Full House, Threes full of Sixes)
(Pre 50%, Flop 96%, Turn 84%)
Hero shows A Q (One Pair, Sixes)
(Pre 50%, Flop 4%, Turn 16%)
SB wins 117 BB
What went wrong? Quote
02-21-2016 , 08:13 PM
Hide results.

The idea of squeezing pre is fine. MP+1 is a whale whose range we crush. SB is a nit and usually has small to medium pockets with this overcall. Our 3bet should be at least x3+1 per caller as standard or maybe x3.5 + 1 for being OOP. This alone destroys SB's set mining odds and he will likely fold or if he comes along, we can easily fold him out almost all the times he misses his set.

However, since MP+1 is clearly high, we should jack it right up. I would make it at least x5 total. We would like him to shove and just GII now.

Since you min-raised, you gave SB odds to come along, which is the first place you went wrong.

OTF, I don't mind stabbing. SB probably folds 44-> 66 since he's nit mining. If he calls, I give up unimproved. When he raises, you should snap fold. Calling would be really bad, raising is atrocious, also you are min-raising again which is possibly even worse though it doesn't really matter at this stage.
What went wrong? Quote
02-21-2016 , 08:15 PM
3bet larger pre, fold to flop raise instead of min 3betting.

Last edited by otatop; 02-21-2016 at 08:15 PM. Reason: beaten by WereBeer's much better advice, but leaving it.
What went wrong? Quote
02-21-2016 , 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
OTF, I don't mind stabbing. SB probably folds 44-> 66 since he's nit mining. If he calls, I give up unimproved. When he raises, you should snap fold. Calling would be really bad, raising is atrocious, also you are min-raising again which is possibly even worse though it doesn't really matter at this stage.
This. Just fold to the flop raise.
What went wrong? Quote
02-21-2016 , 09:43 PM
On the flop it went pretty wrong. Reraising SB makes so no sense. I would say you should just fold to a raise here.
What went wrong? Quote
02-21-2016 , 09:46 PM
I agree that if you are going to 3-bet pre, you should make it more. It is always tough to be raising in this situation, because you are really hoping for folds. Otherwise you'll be playing a big pot out of position and really need to connect with the flop.

But forget about that. Your question in the title is "what went wrong". And this is simple. You were willing to play for stacks with no pair, against someone else who was willing to play for stacks. Most people who are willing to play a hand postflop for stacks have NO PAIR beat. About the only time this isn't true is when they have a big draw. There are no big draws likely on this flop.

So what you are hoping for when you get it in is that 1) you will hit one of your overcards; and 2) that will be good enough. Usually (about 3/4 of the time) you won't hit one of your overcards; and very often it won't be good enough if it happens. Once you meet resistance, cut your losses.
What went wrong? Quote
02-22-2016 , 02:19 AM
3-bet bigger (about 14bb), and the hand plays quite differently.
Bet-fold the flop. Villain has an overpair or a set and he's not folding it when the SPR is <3.

All those minraises are terrible.
What went wrong? Quote
02-22-2016 , 04:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
Hide results.

The idea of squeezing pre is fine. MP+1 is a whale whose range we crush. SB is a nit and usually has small to medium pockets with this overcall. Our 3bet should be at least x3+1 per caller as standard or maybe x3.5 + 1 for being OOP. This alone destroys SB's set mining odds and he will likely fold or if he comes along, we can easily fold him out almost all the times he misses his set.

However, since MP+1 is clearly high, we should jack it right up. I would make it at least x5 total. We would like him to shove and just GII now.

Since you min-raised, you gave SB odds to come along, which is the first place you went wrong.

OTF, I don't mind stabbing. SB probably folds 44-> 66 since he's nit mining. If he calls, I give up unimproved. When he raises, you should snap fold. Calling would be really bad, raising is atrocious, also you are min-raising again which is possibly even worse though it doesn't really matter at this stage.

So you are saying I should have raised 5x before the flop?
What went wrong? Quote
02-22-2016 , 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
3bet larger pre, fold to flop raise instead of min 3betting.

This was the first thing, I thought of
Spoiler:
right after I lost.
What went wrong? Quote
02-22-2016 , 04:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lapka
On the flop it went pretty wrong. Reraising SB makes so no sense. I would say you should just fold to a raise here.

Folding on the flop or not raising more before the flop were better options(now that I think about it), this was the first good hand, I had in a while, so I just went for it, not thinking what I was doing.
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02-22-2016 , 05:15 PM
Ace high's not that great a hand.
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02-22-2016 , 05:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parandy
So you are saying I should have raised 5x before the flop?
Yes, at least. This situation is highly exploitable for a big 3bet.

The whale is a ridiculous whale and will very likely call, maybe even 4bet shove with a wide range. SB will 95% likely fold, if he had premiums, he'd 3bet himself. So now we play a bloated pot vs. a range we crush plus we collect the dead money from SB.

If they both fold (which is what would have happened here if we're going to be results oriented) oh well we just collected 7bb. Your expected longterm win rate from AQss is way below that, so it's a win as well.

I would sometimes just 3bet shove here as it would be great to see all 5 cards vs. the whale. It depends somewhat on exactly what nonsense I've seen him get up to. This is not a line I would often use but if you're going to get called with worse, it's fine to just shove over someone preflop.
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02-22-2016 , 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by otatop
Ace high's not that great a hand.

Very true, when I got this hand, it was the best hand I had in a while, so I was not thinking right here, just screw everything and go go go.
What went wrong? Quote
02-22-2016 , 09:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by WereBeer
Yes, at least. This situation is highly exploitable for a big 3bet.

The whale is a ridiculous whale and will very likely call, maybe even 4bet shove with a wide range. SB will 95% likely fold, if he had premiums, he'd 3bet himself. So now we play a bloated pot vs. a range we crush plus we collect the dead money from SB.

If they both fold (which is what would have happened here if we're going to be results oriented) oh well we just collected 7bb. Your expected longterm win rate from AQss is way below that, so it's a win as well.

I would sometimes just 3bet shove here as it would be great to see all 5 cards vs. the whale. It depends somewhat on exactly what nonsense I've seen him get up to. This is not a line I would often use but if you're going to get called with worse, it's fine to just shove over someone preflop.

Thank you so much Werebeer, this makes a lot of sense and by reading your post, I learned a lot, not just about this hand but future hands as well.
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02-22-2016 , 10:48 PM
Cool, glad to help.
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