lol. u said in ur first post, that Hero just has a pair, u obv didnt see the floped top set.
Ok it might be not the BEST example, but ur still talking non sense.
first of all: there is a possible straight, yes and its really unlikely that he has it ( we raise pre, we bet the flop and so on ).
NLHE is not a game about the nuts such as PLO, so very very very often u will win without the nuts.
Another point is: villain would play every set ( lower then ours ) the exact same. So talking about a -EV play is just pure Fantasy.

the only hand he can have, that beats us is 33 and since we raise preflop and bet an A high flop even this seems unlikely. Well: he called a gutshot and got lucky, nothing we can do there. Absolutly +EV longterm

P.S. top sets just make me put the pedal to the metal, but maybe thats just me

btw: good example miserablee. Way easier to understand then mine

You are right, I did miss the set on my first post. However, it doesn't change anything. In your example you got your money in behind in the hand. That by all rules and definition is -EV.

I also said I believe that I may or not say it's a bad play and I'd do it...but it is none the less Minus.

You are obv not getting it. It is +EV vs his opponent's range, this is all that matters!!

As you can when I got my money in, which was on the turn, there is no way for me to be behind. HEM still says that this play was -EV, and that my equity is 97%. To me, EV doesn't really mean much, its possible that HEM just screwed up this one time, but I try not to tell myself that I should have won more money if i'm "running below ev", I just try to look at the hands I lost and see if I played it correctly given all the information that I had at the time.

i know the definition of "EV". That's exactly what i was trying to tell u. EV can be minus but u still played the best u could. Just shows u that u got coolered and that's why EV ( at least short to midterm ) doesnt say much. If u play 1 mio hands ur EV is gonna be ok still.

How can u see it was the right play when the money went in?

Analyzing the hand i can name u ( obv being realistic and trying to think longterm, if u are gonna be saying he can have any two )

1 Hand that beats us ( 33 )
and numerous hands we beat: A2s; A4s; A5s; AK, AQ, AJ ( at some limits ); 22; 44; 55.
He will play all these hands the exact same.

That makes it 1:9 and that's why ur play is gonna be +EV longterm even if the EV says different right now.

ok...I'm "am" getting it

I said...I wouldn't necessarily fold or not get my money in

the question was and is, what is EV and now we are arguing about this particular hand.

Ever see the movie a Few Good Men? Lawyer said, "these are the facts and they are ........irrefutable".

Same here. Didn't say it was a bad play or a good play. Said it was -EV, that was the question, that is the fact and it is irrefutbale.

just get ur mistake and all is good. U said, that my example was how to play AA bad. and u commented my post ( where i wasnt explaing EV but how u should look at it ) by saying the play is -EV, which i guess is proved not to be.

But it is +EV vs his range!!! Nobody was saying it wouldn't show up as -EV in HEM/PT3. This is one of the flaws w/ using all-in ev to determine how well you are running.