Value Bet Hand Advice - Beginning Poker Questions

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Value Bet Hand Advice

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02-20-2009 , 08:34 AM

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

Just want to make sure I'm doing this right.
Villans are standard 2NL donks.
I fear a flush here, so I decided to bet larger.
Really want to learn to maximize value with TPTK.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players - View hand 44373
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BB): $1.34
UTG: $0.96
CO: $1.21
BTN: $1.93
SB: $5.47

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with A

1 fold, CO calls $0.02, BTN calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, CO calls $0.06, BTN calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.25) K

(3 players)
Hero bets $0.20, CO folds, BTN folds

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02-20-2009 , 08:37 AM

Vanhaomena

veteran

Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 2,048

Shove pf, as played shove flop

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02-20-2009 , 08:46 AM

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

I tried that yesterday. 6,8o wrecked me for 3 something.

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02-20-2009 , 09:00 AM

BubbaDogg1

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 288

This is exactly why i don't like short stacking.

All 3 of you are, or at least should be in FOLD/SHOVE mode. You don't have the stack size to be value betting too much or pushing them off if it looks like they are drawing. I'm willing to bet that if you value bet either one of these villains that they are either going to lay down or shove over the top on a draw.

I have seen players do this at 2NL with deep stacks as well. Not a lot of brain surgeons down there.

As the above poster said, PF shove, as played shove flop

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02-20-2009 , 09:06 AM

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

I am so confused now ><
If I shove preflop I get 2 folds and 3c. Why wouldn't I raise and see flop. If they shove over my bet I go all in and I'm reasonably happy.

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02-20-2009 , 09:07 AM

jonK

centurion

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 152

60bb is not really short stacking. Shoving preflop after two callers is bad advice, so is shoving flop.

Raise more preflop to like at least 0.12

As played your flop bet was fine.

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02-20-2009 , 10:37 AM

Bacon

Makes everything better

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,001

Hero played it fine. Slightly higher Preflop raise is in order - but that's not a huge deal

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02-20-2009 , 11:23 AM

antibrdy

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

Hero played it fine. Slightly higher Preflop raise is in order - but that's not a huge deal

Hi Bacon ,

Please note I AM NOT questioning what you are saying but would just like to know in more detail why you should raise more preflop. This is simply for my own benefit and probably a few others to gain a better understanding of pre flop play in the big blind with two limpers. As in the long run these marginal sizes of bets i geuss will make a big difference over a longer period of time to how much $$,s we will make.

thankyou

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02-20-2009 , 11:41 AM

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

Should I have raise 4BB+1 for limper to 10 then?

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02-20-2009 , 11:49 AM

#10

Coff

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 8,929

Quote:

Originally Posted by g0tcuddly

Should I have raise 4BB+1 for limper to 10 then?

Atleast, if not 4BB+2 bc you are oop. Dont shove preflop unless you are that horrible at post flop play. As stated before, raise to about 0.12 pf. When you hit the flop cbet just as you did. I dont have a problem with how you played just make them have to call a little more pf.

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02-20-2009 , 12:07 PM

#11

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

Great, thanks!

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02-20-2009 , 12:34 PM

#12

BubbaDogg1

journeyman

Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 288

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coff

Coff, I agree with what your saying, but if he is NOT horrible at post flop play, Why short stack? At 2NL you are just losing waaaay too much value from the players that will stack off to you with marginal draws, middle pairs, TPBK. Would you like to double up $2 or $5? I mean after all, at those levels your pretty much playing for stacks anyway.

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02-20-2009 , 12:51 PM

#13

Gerrard08

journeyman

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 358

dont see much of a problem here. I'd be raising more pre flop seen as your oop. But flop bet is fine. Any less and your risking giving the button proper odds should CO call due to your bet being too small. fine

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02-20-2009 , 01:03 PM

#14

fishm0nger

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 655

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubbaDogg1

as played shove flop

Wouldn't this just be turning TPTK into a bluff? He has 60+ BB's in front of him and he played the flop fine imo.

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02-20-2009 , 01:04 PM

#15

Bacon

Makes everything better

Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 3,001

Quote:

Originally Posted by antibrdy

A slightly higher raise will make post flop play easier when we're out of position. This is because a slightly higher raise (I was aiming for 12c) will change the ratio--> Stacksize : Potsize (SPR- Stack-pot ratio). With AK oop in a multiway pot we want to dictate the SPR to about 4:1. This way we can commit easily if we hit tptk and not worry about reverse implied odds.

The change from 8c to 12c isnt a HUGE difference by anymeans. But if you're raising, might as well dictate the pot size the way you'd like it.

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02-20-2009 , 01:14 PM

#16

A.Ertbjerg

Heisenbjerg

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 10,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

This,

And simply for value. With two limpers you're likely up against marginal hands so getting more money in with AK will win you more money in the long run, even if we don't get to stack off.

And just to clarify: OP isn't short-stacking. He has almost 60 BB which is fine to allow regular flop play. (Although you could still argue that buying in full will yield a higher profit. This is however dependent on OP be good at deep stack play. If he is just learning 60 BB allows to play a flop and turn game were you'll be able to get it in on the turn.)

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02-20-2009 , 01:33 PM

#17

g0tcuddly

old hand

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,383

I didn't see a reason to buy in for 5$s on a table of all 1$s. I also am not that confident playing a deep stack game as of yet.

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02-20-2009 , 05:51 PM

#18

antibrdy

newbie

Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bacon

Thats brilliant and makes perfect sense thankyou very much for taking the time to explain this, very much appreciated

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