Hello y'all and thank you for taking the time to read my naive question(s). Bear with me for a bit of background or simply skip to the question further down the post.

I have no background in poker besides playing with friends occasionally and am very recently starting to learn how it actually works. I am soon to put money into whichever site I eventually decide upon (US player) but before I do that I am seeking to acquire a better understanding of the game, as at this point I have basically no idea what I am doing.

I am interested in getting as good as I can get at poker, but harbor no aspirations of making a large profit in the immediate future. I have a well paying job and am more interested in the challenge of the game and figuring out how to best the competition.

I have done my share of reading. I have read (but not fully absorbed obviously) most threads in the various "best of" collections here on 2+2 that pertain to cash, my game of choice. I also have Poker Math that Matters, and am currently reading Applications of NL Hold'em by Matthew Janda and Will Tipton's newest book on HUNL.

I obviously browse 2+2 and have read various accounts of the current state of the games. Should I believe in half of what I read about how frustrating the micros are or how there is no money in HU? If am not interested in playing many tables with a fixed strategy against a bunch of fish (micros), should I instead learn HU?

I am going through Expert HUNL now because it got great reviews and I am really into the general concept of HU. But should I focus on learning HU when according to many the HU games are dead/full of bumhunters? Also, I see that cash HU starts at 25NL on many sites. I do not believe I'll be a wunderkind who starts crushing immediately, so I fully expect to lose a couple hundred buyins. But my intention is to play cash games in the future.

Assuming that I were to start learning HU as my first form of poker, and intend to play cash eventually, should I start with HUSNG's until I have a basic grasp of the game, or would my basic grasp of HUSNG's hinder my eventual goal of learning cash? All of my poker reading up to this point has been cash game related, so I would prefer not to pick up a completely new and alien form of poker to start winning HUSNG's until I have a "comfortable enough grasp of poker" to start playing HU Cash then figuring out that ranges and play styles were so vastly different that nothing I learned is applicable.

The Question: Am I overstating the difference between HUSNG and HU Cash? Will I be okay learning HUSNG's to build a bankroll for HU Cash, or will I learn that my HUSNG skills do not transfer over and I might as well have learned Badugi?

This became an order of magnitude longer than I originally intended because I tried to give as much information and explicate my question as clearly as possible to any brave, kind soul who would glance down from their mountain of understanding and enlighten me.

First question, why are you wanting to learn NLHE rather than, say (as you mention), badugi ?

That's a great question. I will say that it is because the most "help" is available for this game, there is a vast amount of quality writing about it. perhaps through learning NLHE I'll be able to better grasp other games and more importantly "how" to learn a game. after I begin to understand the inner machinations of NLHE I can then approach badugi with a more sound theoretical framework for study.

I always think my freeroll play prior to my first deposit helped my pre-flop game a lot, even if you are playing cash (I play cash), it will help if that is the kind of basics you are looking to learn. I would play 6 max and climb to 10nl and 25nl then I would switch to heads up from there if u are looking to do that. Reading a expert book on HUNLH I think is pretty useless because you won't need that information for a while.

Yes I am aware of the impracticality of applying "expert" techniques at low stakes but I am rather trying to understand how better players think about the game. The book is more about game theory optimal play than saying "play x hand this way in situation y against opponent z." Regardless, the book was cheap and it can't hurt to learn the things I "don't know I don't know" if that makes any sense.

Especially if you play normal speed or deepstack husngs the skillset will transfer at least somewhat. Even the things you don't immediately grasp upon switching to hu cash you should have the conceptual understanding to deal with and it will just take some effort to make the correct adaptations.

As hard as this may be to quantify, am I better suited learning 6max then transitioning to HUcash, or HUSNGs then cash?

hmm i wonder if learning HUNL will help me improve vastly as a player?

im just a microstakes nit so my mind has been conditioned that playing good hands = good poker and u cant go wrong.

it certainly will be strange having to play hands like T6s and K5s in order to survive.

^

I had a short stint where I played heads up games with the intention of improving my post-flop play and I feel like it helped me a lot

As for the post two posts above I always recommend the path freerolls/turbo tournaments > full ring cash > 6 max > HUNLH for absolute beginners (stopping on the path if u feel like that game best suits you) just because it is the way I did things when I first started and it provided a very smooth transition from game to game and worked really well for me and understand the fundamentals of all forms pretty well now.

Like kvnd said, I think HU in general may be very helpful in improving your post-flop play. You'll find that an aggressive style of play is almost always profitable as long as you know when to let go of a losing hand or realize your betting into your opponents monters. Because of the nature of HU I feel as though 6-max ring or SNG games might be better for you when just starting to play for real money. You will have the chance to be more patient and wait for some decent hands that you feel comfortable with playing post flop. Just like any other game there is variance in the game that will undoubtedly affect your bankroll and I feel like it is pretty high in HU. You will see people playing and shoving with just about any 2 cards depending on the stakes you'll be playing. So you will be finding yourself in a lot of coin-flip situations where your AA's and KK's get cracked quite often. So I don't know if I could recommend HU as an initial BR builder.

As your game progresses I definitely recommend HU thought, I play a lot of HUNL SNG's at the $30-$50 range and love them. There is a lot of money to be made at the micro to low stakes HU SNG's. Good luck and let us know how you do.

Thanks for the response. In my ignorance I did not realize bovada has 10NL cash HU so I will mostly likely start there. Once I get my affairs in order I'll probably start a thread in PG&C in case anyone will find me trying to learn poker/HUNL from scratch interesting.

Goodluck and have fun. Be sure to read up on BR management to develope a strategy and then adhere to it strictly. Like I said it can be very easy to spew away your BR in HU.

Oh man, if you're just starting HU, I highly recommend HUSNGs. The rake is rough in HU micro cash, and if you're a beginner it will decimate you.

Deposit 157.5 and play the 5.25 HUSNGs. That way you learn decent fundamentals and you won't have to worry about having to deal with short stacks hit and running you (in addition to terribad rake)

Hello, you are actually the poster who enlightened me to microstakes HU at bovada. I saw your posts about crazy rake, and heres my probably stupid idea: I don't really mind losing money to rake at 10NL, so I might just play it and try to move up asap. Only because I would then be able to avoid time spent learning HUSNG basics and then cash basics. Does that sound rational?

No, it doesn't. Never mind the fact that you are just starting HU so moving up in itself in a brand new game will be difficult, but the hefty rake eats at your win rate, which further prolongs the moving up process. Hell, forget about moving up...considering the rake it will even be hard to be profitable.

My sample size is over 1,140 hands so it's small, but over these hands, I've averaging 26.5bb/100 in rake.

Do you know what a GOOD win rate is for FR/6M games is? 2bb/100 - 5bb/100. For HU it's 8bb/100 - 12bb/100...so yeah, that math speaks for itself. Being new to HU and having to deal with absurd rake is an extremely bad combination.

Again, I'm averaging 26.5bb/100 in rake. Added to the fact that I'm 6.5 BIs below EV and it makes for some tough times, which I'm dealing with but I'm not so sure you will be able to (HU has the highest variance among every other game, so you're guaranteed a downswing). I also played about 300 HUSNGs 2 years ago. W/out that experience I'd be in over my head for sure. The only reason I'm continuing this in spite of all I'm saying is because I find myself to be better than most of the guys I play against (most of them being short stackers), so I think my edge is good enough against most of these players to beat the rake (b/c at the end of the day it is 5NL). I really just have to get better at quitting people that are better than me. I had a -5 BI session and that was a big hit to my BR.

Basically, if you want to play 10NLHU the proper BR for it is $500. It would suck a lot if you lost it all when you could have had a better learning experience playing HUSNGs for a fraction of that amount.

This is true.

There is almost no way you could beat a shortstacker hu for >26bb/100 at any stake. Pretty sure if villain openjams every hand you won't beat that much rake, you should stop.

You don't need more than $300 to play 10nlhu, lol.

http://www.anskypoker.com/2009/02/he...ll-management/

Cash =/= HUSNG

If you play cash w/ 30 BIs, you're a sicko and I respect you for that

That post is from 2009, and it's 10nl.

I'm strongly advising the OP to play HUSNGs instead of cash, so discussing this any further isn't necessary