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Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied?

11-14-2022 , 07:59 PM
Hi guys, so I was playing in a 6 max table NL2 in co position.

Preflop I was dealt AKo (Ad Ks) I raise 5c, folds round to BB who called,

flop came 7s Ac Jh, BB checked, I raised 11c (pot size) BB called called after not to much thinking,

turn 6h, BB checked I raised 16c just under half pot, BB took a little while and 3-bet 48c which put me in a right tough spot, we were both sat deep, I had $4.84 left in my stack after what Id already paid into the pot and he had $3.59 after what he'd paid in the pot and the main target at the table was 2 seats to his right (and we'd both already stacked him) my thoughts were that he'd either hit 2 pair A6 or J6 or that it was a gut shot bluff for a flush with Ah or just a weaker A pair and he was trying to put the pressure on me and put me in the position I was in and steal the pot or maybe he'd totally played me and hit a set or 2 pair from the flop but I feel like a set he'd of put the pressure preflop especially with JJ so I was thinking that I knew he'd bomb the pot on the river and I didnt want to be put in that position, especially if another heart or 6 came if I just called, so my option was to fold or 4-bet hoping for a fold, again were both sitting deep and this guy was absolutely not my target so I was also worried if I 4bet he'd jam then I have to hero call or fold and I've just handed over more money. I feel like I should have bet more postflop/pre-turn to get a fold and a better perspective on position because although my hand was fair strong this guy wasn't my target and I was already aware I didnt want to get into fisty cuffs with the guy sat deep and playing well, also i felt like if i made a massive overbet it would seem bluffy for him to raise and i dint want to play a big pot with him, so i folded!! did I get bullied here or was my thinking right? should I have played this different? should I have grown a pair and hit back at him or lived to fight another day/if in doubt, get out? I dunno, I dont carry a massive ego but its definitely taken a beating here!!!

Last edited by DeeBee; 11-14-2022 at 08:25 PM. Reason: mis type
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 09:14 AM
I gave up halfway through. Punctuation and grammar exist for a reason. If you don't care enough about your question to use them it's unlikely people will care enough to respond.
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 11:57 AM
My bad, I wrote this late last night so lets try again and apologies if it still doesn't read well! I do care about my question as I'm keen to hear and learn from more experienced players...

So I was playing in a 6 max NL2 in the CO position.

Preflop I was dealt AKo (Ad Ks) I raise 5c, folds round to BB who called.

Flop came 7s Ac Jh, BB checked, I raised 11c (pot size) BB called called after not to much thinking.

Turn 6h, BB checked, I raised 16c (just under half pot), BB took a little while and 3-bet 48c, I fold.

The 3bet put me in a right tough spot as we were both sat deep, I had $4.84 left in my stack after what I'd already paid into the pot and he had $3.59 after what he'd paid in the pot. The main target at the table was 2 seats to his right (and we'd both already stacked him).

My thoughts were that either; he hit 2 pair (A6 or possibly (but less likely) J6) or that it was a bluff with either a gut shot flush with Ah or simply just a weaker A pair and he was trying to put the pressure on me to put me in the position I was in and steal the pot. Also I was thinking maybe he'd totally played me and hit a set or 2 pair from the flop, but I feel like a set he'd of put the pressure preflop especially with JJ or AA and I also think he'd of put pressure if he hit 2 pair on the flop.

I was also thinking that I knew he'd bomb the pot on the river and I really didn't want to be put in that position after paying more into the pot, especially if another heart or 6 came if I just called. So my option was to fold or 4-bet hoping for a fold. Again were both sitting deep and this guy was absolutely not my target. I was worried if I 4bet he'd jam, then I have to hero call or fold when I've just handed over more money. Also sat at this table I was in the mindset that I didn't want to play big pots with this guy unless nutted!

I feel like I should have bet more postflop/pre-turn to get a fold from AX or JX and get a better perspective on my position in this hand. However, although my hand was fair strong, this guy wasn't my target and I was already aware I didn't want to get into fisty cuffs with the guy sat deep and playing well. But then again, if I made a massive overbet would it seem bluffy for him to raise? I also feel like my turn bet was weak compared to my flop bet, which makes me think maybe I should have bet less on the flop with having the mindset I don't want to play a big pot with him?

So; did I get bullied here? Was any of my thinking right? Should I have played this different in that I overplayed/over-rated my top pair top kicker?

I'm interested to hear answers to my above questions and also to hear how other people would have played this? Maybe this would be a much easier fold or jam for more experienced players? I understand were talking of very little money value here but I'm on kind of a bankroll challenge so I want to take the game seriously and make sound decisions etc.

So I dunno, I don't carry a massive ego but it feels like its taken a beating here!!!
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 12:23 PM
Also thinking should I have been considering suited connectors here (8,9h)? It makes sense for a pre-flop call, possibly a pot size call postflop but not a 3bet/check raise in my mind. But with me not being experienced, maybe it does make sense to someone more experienced?
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 03:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeeBee
Also thinking should I have been considering suited connectors here (8,9h)? It makes sense for a pre-flop call, possibly a pot size call postflop but not a 3bet/check raise in my mind. But with me not being experienced, maybe it does make sense to someone more experienced?
This isn't relevant to the hand, but you should know that he did not 3-bet you on the turn. He simply raised you, and since he was out of position, it was a check-raise. If you had then raised again, that would have been a 3-bet.

The number 3 in 3-bet, actually is related to the number of bets. You bet, he raised - that is 2.

Preflop, we call a re-raise a 3-bet because the big blind is considered the first bet. The terminology originally came from fixed limit games - if you were just to call the BB you would have to put in 1-bet. But if someone raises (making it 2 BB), and another person re-raises, a person must now call 3 big blinds, or 3 bets. So the re-raise was called a 3-bet. In no limit, the amounts will vary, so you wouldn't say it is "3 bets to you" - you would have to specify the amount. But the terminology still stays the same.

In the hand, I would probably call and see what happened on the river. Your hand beats a lot of hands he might do this with, but it also is crushed by a lot of value hands.
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 04:01 PM
Ahh ok yeah that makes sense, should have known really the name "3-bet" is pretty self explanatory!

And yeah how you'd of played does make sense to, but what sort of thoughts would you be carrying into the river... would you be hoping to check check, would you have bet if he'd of checked, would you have called or raised a further bet from him? I know its hard to say because its very subjective to what card was dealt and bet size etc. but just trying to get an idea?

thanks for the reply

Last edited by DeeBee; 11-15-2022 at 04:04 PM. Reason: miss type
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 04:40 PM
Not sure if it makes a difference but his BB position was only due to someone sitting out also he wasn't as deep as I thought he actually only had $2.59 after paying into the pot. Here's the hand if the link works....

https://mygame.mypartypokerlive.com/...5c7307d148c1c3
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 05:36 PM
That wouldn't make a difference. He was the BB because he was the BB.

To start the hand, the effective stack is 3.23, which is about 161 BB. When describing a hand, it is good to give the effective stack - which is the smaller of the two stacks (you could have $100, and if your opponent only had $1, the most you are playing for is $1).

It is a tough spot, and probably depends on the opponent, but some will think any ace is a monster, and will raise the turn with any ace and think they are doing it for value. Other players will just call with an ace, figuring they are never getting a better hand to fold. I still would opt for calling, and probably call up around a half pot bet on the river. If I know he is one who will overvalue an ace, I could even jam for value on the river, but I'd have to know my opponent pretty well.
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-15-2022 , 07:11 PM
Ok yeah that's the better way to think about it and how you'd of played it here definitely gives me good food for thought! I'm still not sure if I prefer my stack displayed in BB at cash games yet, definitely do for tournaments but I toy between cash and BB in cash games.

I'd probably only got about 50 hands on him maybe more, maybe less but definitely not a good enough sample to know him well at all. It's hard to say though really as I don't have a HUD and tbh I loose track of time when playing! But from what I'd seen I don't think he would overvalue A with a weak kicker and I do think he was thinking enough to put me on a range and try to (successfully) put me off what he knew was likely a better hand than his.

It's hard online without live reads just having previous behavior and I think with the speed of the game sometimes I miss things, also having a less poker focused environment but its something I'm having to get used to and hopefully getting better at. Makes it harder at micro's as people do some really weird things so you never really know what people are capable of and I'm fully convinced some people click buttons with their eyes closed lol but this guy was definitely not one of them!

Thanks for the advice.
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11-18-2022 , 05:14 AM
Thank you for rewriting.
There are a couple of things you mention that raise alarm bells. But, first the hand.
I wouldn't pot the flop here. You flop TPTK on a flop with an ace. This should favour you as the pre flop raiser. You want weaker hands to call, small pairs, Jx, 7x. By betting big you force marginal hands to fold and strengthen the continuing range of your opponent. This is especially bad in position, where you have the most information.
You get checkraised on the turn after a card that puts a flush draw and straight draw on the board, and you bet smaller (in terms of pot size) than on the flop. I think you are correct to discount AA and JJ. so made hands are maybe 77 and 2 pair. Is your opponent playing J7 to a raise? I think there are enough hands that can float flop here that you can call and evaluate river. 78hh, 89hh and 9T/QThh probably hang around.
Here is what concerns me though you say:
"I feel like I should have bet more postflop/pre-turn to get a fold from AX or JX"
This is exactly wrong. These are the hands that are strong enough for you to get 2 or 3 bets from. You want these hands calling. Betting less on the flop, then 1/2 or 2/3 on the turn is how you get value from TPTK. Don't drive out worse hands that can pay you by betting so much that only better can call.
People will suck out on you sometimes when you drive value to the river. If you're not losing on the river sometimes, you're doing it wrong. Before you make any bet, know why you are making it. If nothing you beat can call, and nothing that beats you will fold, don't bet.
On the flop, the hands you want calling are Ax, Jx, 7x, and small pairs and gutters. Think about what that range will call, and bet that much.

Last edited by Kalaea; 11-18-2022 at 05:26 AM. Reason: added last bit
Thoughts on this hand - did i allow my self to get bullied? Quote
11-18-2022 , 05:26 AM
Edit: Good semibluffing hands on the turn include Ahxh, and the hh hands with a gutter or pair, like 78hh. KQhh is another possibility. A turn pot checkraise screams semibluff to me. I'd call and call a reasonable bet on blank rivers and make a note on the player.
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