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Is this standard btn play? Is this standard btn play?

07-06-2016 , 07:11 AM
Hello friends (= Have a feeling it's way to loose vs random.

Ongame Network $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 2933036
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $8.10
UTG: $11.26
MP: $17.30
CO: $11.70
Hero (BTN): $10.00
SB: $9.15

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BTN with A 6
1 fold, MP raises to $0.25, CO calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15

Flop: ($1.05) A 4 5 (4 players)
BB bets $0.80, MP folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.65) Q (2 players)
BB bets $1.35, Hero calls $1.35

River: ($5.35) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:16 AM
BB is betting low, Flop is an easy call. OTT he could've hit any Q, maybe the clubs-one.

Calling Turn here is imo fine as well, and you should've bet it if he checks to you.

OTR can you think about a thin bet, as he may calls with his QJ, QK, 98c
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:18 AM
Don't call raises with small suited aces, you're going to be dominated every time you hit an ace. I'm guessing BB had something like 45s?
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaffPow
BB is betting low, Flop is an easy call. OTT he could've hit any Q, maybe the clubs-one.

Calling Turn here is imo fine as well, and you should've bet it if he checks to you.

OTR can you think about a thin bet, as he may calls with his QJ, QK, 98c
I like the thinbet rather than a proper sized one in that case. I was thinking "SDVALUE DUDE DON'T BE STUPID", and checked. But I realise you're right. He'll call with a bunch of stuff I beat.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis
Don't call raises with small suited aces, you're going to be dominated every time you hit an ace. I'm guessing BB had something like 45s?
Thanks again man. I agree in this case when I made it cheap for both sb and bb to see the flop. Nah AJo.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaffPow
BB is betting low, Flop is an easy call. OTT he could've hit any Q, maybe the clubs-one.

Calling Turn here is imo fine as well, and you should've bet it if he checks to you.

OTR can you think about a thin bet, as he may calls with his QJ, QK, 98c
Disagree at every point.

As played preflop, which shouldn't have been a call, the flop is probably a call but not "easy".

The turn is even more marginal and if he checks it is definitely a bad idea to bet. After calling the turn, betting the river would just be setting money on fire.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:52 AM
Kelvis nailed it. Fold pre. Check back river and beat a missed FD. It would be way too thin to bet one pair for "value" in this spot.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvis
Disagree at every point.

As played preflop, which shouldn't have been a call, the flop is probably a call but not "easy".

The turn is even more marginal and if he checks it is definitely a bad idea to bet. After calling the turn, betting the river would just be setting money on fire.
Good points and I agree about the turn. I think I have to call flop though.
But, on the river, I made a riverrange for BB. 55-44,AJs-ATs,A5s-A2s,KQs,QTs+,T9s,98s,87s,76s,AQo-ATo. Should be a logical one? I beat 40% of that range. He wouldn't call with everything I beat though. Based on this professional looking analysis, I agree with you Kelvis.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 08:14 AM
Yeah just to emphasise what people have said at these stakes people love playing Ax and there's going to be someone in the pot with an ace very often. If they pair their ace they are not folding it. And so if you play low aces chances are you're going to be outkicked and destroyed.
Low suited aces are only good for stealing blinds imo.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 08:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrno1324
Yeah just to emphasise what people have said at these stakes people love playing Ax and there's going to be someone in the pot with an ace very often. If they pair their ace they are not folding it. And so if you play low aces chances are you're going to be outkicked and destroyed.
Low suited aces are only good for stealing blinds imo.
Thanks man, I agree. Especially when I invited sb and bb.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 12:11 PM
This is a classic post. I see a lot of good replies here.

Lots of folks here wont tell you how to get out of jail ... but they will tell you how to stay out of jail ... by folding PF.

Not sure what 'inviting' you are referring to, unless you think 3bet is better than flatting here (and it probably is).

AP (danger) calling the Flop is a must .. never folding with bd stuff and top pair. It's always a puzzle to figure out when you see a donk bet from a blind!! AJ was way down my list of possible hands here from EP with a PF raiser (and others) behind. That comes down to table dynamic.

AP (more danger) calling the Turn is marginal BUT:
1) He dropped his betting to pot ratio big time. Could mean A LOT of things, good and bad for our hand.
2) You do pick up a kicker if board pairs
3) You are now HU IP

I don't think I make a bet until the River if checked to on both Turn and River, but I'm expecting to be called down a lot. Need to read into the 'timing' tells of V's check on both Turn and River. Slow check on Turn and quick on River is a bet for me.

Stay out of jail and you wont have to know how to get out of it!! Fold>3bet>flat ... GL
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 04:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by answer20
This is a classic post. I see a lot of good replies here.

Lots of folks here wont tell you how to get out of jail ... but they will tell you how to stay out of jail ... by folding PF.

Not sure what 'inviting' you are referring to, unless you think 3bet is better than flatting here (and it probably is).

AP (danger) calling the Flop is a must .. never folding with bd stuff and top pair. It's always a puzzle to figure out when you see a donk bet from a blind!! AJ was way down my list of possible hands here from EP with a PF raiser (and others) behind. That comes down to table dynamic.

AP (more danger) calling the Turn is marginal BUT:
1) He dropped his betting to pot ratio big time. Could mean A LOT of things, good and bad for our hand.
2) You do pick up a kicker if board pairs
3) You are now HU IP

I don't think I make a bet until the River if checked to on both Turn and River, but I'm expecting to be called down a lot. Need to read into the 'timing' tells of V's check on both Turn and River. Slow check on Turn and quick on River is a bet for me.

Stay out of jail and you wont have to know how to get out of it!! Fold>3bet>flat ... GL
Fold would be, as you and others stated, the best option vs random, sure. I can see that.

Inviting as in making it cheaper for sb&bb to see a flop. And I agree about 3betting. Which I also do sometimes in that spot. Not sure of the percentage though.

Also, I agree, as previously stated, I have to call the flop. Considering the stakes, AJo is not weird to me. It's the donkbet that confuses me.

About the turn, yes, the low bet made it easier to call. And considering his cheap flop, donkbet flop and then 50%ing the turn I should of picked up on that. Doesn't look like my TPLK is good here. Should've given up right here. The only factor that makes the turncall marginal is the betsize. But knowing the intention behind it, which we should at this point, we should fold.

Interesting what you said about the timing tells. Why is a slow check turn and a quick one on river appearing weak?

Superthanks for your input. It means a lot!
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 07:47 PM
Timing is thinking .. not necessarily weak, but thinking none the less. He could have a QX with flush draw but not sure if he's calling a raise so he's unsure what to do. He could have a weak Ace and be worried about AQ, which is the case here. He could have JJ and now is facing 2 overs.

All I'm saying is that a slow-Turn, quick-River check scenario means nothing's changed and 'in general' means he's just ready for showdown ... thus provides a better opportunity to take it away. Doesn't mean he's not going to c/c 80% of the time but I can pretty much bet he's got an average (or below) holding. GL
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 08:53 PM
Prolly over-fold turn based on experience w/o doing any math... AP just x OTR.

His bluffing range should only look like KcJc, 6c7c, 8c7c, JcTc... but i can see him having way more Ax combos + 2-pair combos that you are behind too.

---

If you have a read that villain never bluffs MW OOP into 3 other villain's then we can maybe dis include a few more bluff combos. Which is actually a good read to have on say a competent villain.

Last edited by Evoxgsr96; 07-06-2016 at 08:59 PM.
Is this standard btn play? Quote
07-06-2016 , 11:04 PM
Calling pre is OK, if you have the discipline to get away from an ace on the flop (pretty easily dominated playing four handed).

Flatting the flop is OK, as there are still a lot of c-bets in his range. I would have folded the turn. A bet that sized on the turn is very likely a value bet, and you beat nothing in his value range.
Is this standard btn play? Quote

      
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