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standard? standard?

11-01-2010 , 12:34 PM
Sorry our equity should be 44/45%, so calling may be best, but because villain is completely unkown its not clear.
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11-01-2010 , 12:41 PM
You're weighting sets to be wayyyy too heavy in your range evaluation imo. For one, there are way more overpairs and flush draws...how many combos of sets are there? And imo a random is more likely to play ATdd or 99 this way than a set
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11-01-2010 , 12:59 PM
TBOB

On any low flop theres 9 combos of sets.

With overpairs its less clear. Does anyone not 3bet QQ, even JJ most of the time? TT & 99 are certainly in his range, but its so rare for these hands to be c/r.

With flush draws we have to remember we arent that far ahead. He called from the BB, so AXs is more likely than low FDs, and AXs has 12 outs, which is a flip.

So my calc was based on 9 set combos, as he can absolutely ALWAYS have a set here, about 5 FD combos & 6 OP combos, assuming he doesnt usually pull this move with TT 99 1/2 JJ (15 combos).

Anyhows, as I say id call, but would probably look back and wonder what i was beating after i was stacked.
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11-01-2010 , 02:24 PM
I think its really a fine line either way and you of course make good points. Point is I don't think we should ever fold barring some kind of read so we agree on that
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11-01-2010 , 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBobLP
I like donking if the pfr has an aggressive or spewy image. Let's assume they don't have KK in this spot but something that missed...a check shove makes u no money...but leading can give the opponent an opportunity to bluff at you or call with something that looks best but really isn't. If they have a big hand the money is going in anyway, the point is to make some extra money and charge draws when they don't have a big hand. That's why check shoving with a set is so horrible. You're folding out a ton of hands that can call a smaller bet. A line I like with sets oop is c/c, lead turn as well. Depending on the board of course.

You extract value against these setmining nits by making the pots big pf and minimizing your losses when they hit postflop.
Agreed if OP had AK instead of KK he isn't calling the chk-raise shove. I don't get the pfr having an aggressive or spewy image comment because if that is the case isn't that guy going to cbet every single time a dry board like that one? If you donk on him he may be able to get away. If you check call, he may fire one or two streets worth of bets and you can check raise the turn or the river. If the pfr is a bit of a nit, I don't mind the donk bet, same with if he doesn't cbet often. Ensure that pot building occurs. If that other player is Aggro, let him do the work, more times than not he will bow to your aggression. On the other hand if you let him, he will keep building the pot for you.
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11-01-2010 , 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChurroDonk
Agreed if OP had AK instead of KK he isn't calling the chk-raise shove. I don't get the pfr having an aggressive or spewy image comment because if that is the case isn't that guy going to cbet every single time a dry board like that one? If you donk on him he may be able to get away. If you check call, he may fire one or two streets worth of bets and you can check raise the turn or the river. If the pfr is a bit of a nit, I don't mind the donk bet, same with if he doesn't cbet often. Ensure that pot building occurs. If that other player is Aggro, let him do the work, more times than not he will bow to your aggression. On the other hand if you let him, he will keep building the pot for you.

donking is a good way to get aggro players to try and bluff you imo
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11-01-2010 , 03:48 PM
im calling everytime. like a previous poster mentioned, i'd be more scared of a normal c/r then an c/shove.
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11-01-2010 , 04:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBobLP
donking is a good way to get aggro players to try and bluff you imo
Do you do a standard donk 1/2 pot or one of those minuscule 20% of the pot I am trying to buy the pot on the cheap donks?

Either way I will give it a go and see how it goes.
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11-01-2010 , 04:49 PM
Calling an all-in raise of $8.21 into a $1.25 pot is NOT standard. The majority of the time, villain will have a set which has you crushed. Folding is the correct play.
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11-01-2010 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by smiso24
Calling an all-in raise of $8.21 into a $1.25 pot is NOT standard. The majority of the time, villain will have a set which has you crushed. Folding is the correct play.
wrong
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11-01-2010 , 05:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChurroDonk
Do you do a standard donk 1/2 pot or one of those minuscule 20% of the pot I am trying to buy the pot on the cheap donks?

Either way I will give it a go and see how it goes.
in spots where i use it i am usually just betting what i would had i been the pfr. and usually that is based on board texture. ill bet a little bigger on draw heavy boards and somewhat smaller on dry flops, regardless of what i hold. i think at 10nl you could probably play a bit more exploitably however
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