Hello everyone,

I played a hand today which let me think wether shoving AK preflop is a good play.

I ran pokerstove and these are the results. I'm assuming only QQ+ and AK are calling to you

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.594% 19.26% 20.33% 110831016 116968584.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 60.406% 40.08% 20.33% 230565960 116968584.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }

Only when you have AQ+ and JJ+ your play can get profitable.

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.711% 39.03% 11.68% 417039276 124799748.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 49.289% 37.61% 11.68% 401838924 124799748.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }

I just need someone to say if I'm right or not

This was the hand

Villain is 15.1/12.2/4.19 met 1.2k handen. Hij 3bet 2,4% van alle handen wat op QQ+, AK uitkomt

Party Poker $5 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 494957
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

BTN: $2.00
SB: $4.90
BB: $4.92
UTG: $18.90
MP: $2.50
Hero (CO): $5.42

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero is CO with K A
UTG raises to $0.16, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.56, 3 folds, UTG raises to $2.88, Hero raises to $5.42 all in, UTG calls $2.54

Flop: ($10.90) 7 Q 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($10.90) 2 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($10.90) 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

I wonder if we've met before on the tables.... I personally hate getting it all in for 100bb pre-flop. I know others will say it's standard. But unless I have a good read i'd be folding it. I think I have a big enough edge to not have to resort to flipping against people at best.

i think at best its a flip. I would fold

You are not considering fold equity, that's what makes shoving AK preflop a +EV play.

Fold to the 4bet.

flat pre

dude we have 0 FE here when we get 4bet

you will get KK to call your allin and hit your 3 outer. just keep shoving

Should I also take my previous before my shove money into account?

Like in this hand there is 2.88 + 0.56 into the pot. With my left over 4.86 I can win that money + the 2.54 that he will put in if he calls. So I can win 5.98 with my 4.86 extra money what means my share of all the money after raising is 44.8 %

Is this the way I should look at it or not? Should I take his 2.88 into account with this calculations.

If this isn't true maybe the best thing I can do is only shove when his 3bet or 4bet range (whitch one should I use) is 4,2% or greater because that is AQ+ and JJ+.

Also when the above calculations are right should this mean I only have to go all in when I made a big raise before he reraised me or not?

Also thx for all the reply's

Fold Equity is the difference in where you make money too

Is your ingame also Masq then ?

No, my FTP/stars use it, but my Party account is unrelated. I purposely didn't set my 2+2 account as my online alias for a good reason

My basic strategy with AK is 3bet a raise, call a 3bet, fold to a 4bet/shove

Either shove, or call a shove if the villain is a shortstacker.

me too but I don't think anyone at these limits will really study their opponents to get an edge or something


I think I will apply this also


Does anyone can say if the calculations I made are right or wrong?

Maybe, but we play the same limit and the same site. What are the chances we'll find each other at the table eventually. Now you know I don't shove <KK i'm hugely exploitable

Also, we may go to bigger stakes somewhere down the line and be posting information we may not want others to know so it's best to just keep it under wraps from the start.

Also true but then you gonne mix up your play and you play wrongly against me because you think I shove AK but I mixed up and only shove AA so that I win from your KK once nah not that this is working or some sort >.<

But your right

Masq likes men

Assuming you have no FE (which you don't) this is correct.

You don't have to 3bet AK everytime.

I shove all-in pre-flop with AK all the frickin time. Everytime I 4bet or get 4bet and I hold AK and it's not terribly deep I'm getting all-in pre-flop.


That said in this hand ... I may just call the first raise pre-flop. Really tight player raising from UTG. Especially if he is positionally aware and raises more from LP than from EP .... he's just not raising often and so also he's probably not going to be playing back much. In this situation vs. this guy I kinda like just calling pre (it also gives people behind a chance to squeeze).

As played yea shove over his 4bet is pretty standard.

If u 3-bet, how do you fold to a 4-bet?

My dividing line is pretty much 100BB. Under that, I'll get it in all day pre. I should also mention that while adopting this method, AKo and AKs are my most profitable hands, beating even AA or KK. Go figure.

Having said that, once effective stacks start getting much above that -- say, 150BB -- then I'd much rather be shoving than calling the shove with AK.

As an aside, I'm also learning to chill the **** out when holding AK and I miss the flop.

But like other people have no doubt written (bedtime for bonzo over here, didn't read 'em all), AK's strength comes from fold equity. That is to say, the value it gets from making other hands fold.

"Why don't other hands have this same fold equity since the villain, at this point, knows not whether I'm holding AK or 72??"

Because, if called, AK has a lot of legs to stand on. It crushes Ax/Kx, it's way ahead of any two unpaired cards, it's a flop vs. a pair and it's a 30% dog vs. KK. The only hand that has it annihilated is AA and that makes up a very, very small % of hands you'll be seeing shove.

GL.

the amount of random stuff people get it in with in the micros plus the fold equity makes getting AK all in pre profitable. Only time i flat a 3bet is against nits.

I think I will only shove when 3b > 4,2%. In that case I have a equity edge:

Hand 0: 50.711% 39.03% 11.68% 417039276 124799748.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 49.289% 37.61% 11.68% 401838924 124799748.00 { JJ+, AQs+, AQo+ }

In other cases I will just call to see the flop because when an ace or king hits I in favor:

Board: Ac 7d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 70.768% 52.15% 18.62% 99130 35385.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 29.232% 10.62% 18.62% 20180 35385.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }

Board: Kc 7d Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 54.284% 35.67% 18.62% 67798 35385.00 { AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 45.716% 27.10% 18.62% 51512 35385.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }

This has to be 1/3 of the time (right?) where I also might have some implied odds because many ppl at the micro's don't easily fold their QQ or KK even when an ace hits the flop.

Is this logical or do I miss something here?

And ppl there is some misconception of if there is any fold equity or not.
Can someone please tell me why there is/is not any fold equity?

btw thx for all the replies!

You're missing FE.

Also if someone 3bets AQ I bet they also 3bet TT ... in fact I bet most people 3bet TT before they 3bet AQ.

Also average 3bet % does not equal 3bet % in whatever particular situation. If CO raises the guy in the sb is 3betting a lot more often than if UTG had raised .... I mean depends on how good the players are and how positionally aware but that is how it should be.


And yea when the A or K hits that is good in your favor .... but JJ is not stacking off anymore most likely unless you really do something tricky and/or he's kinda dumb or you have some advanced metagame going on. AA and KK is stacking off though.



IMO try posting some specific hands and give people a concrete thing to comment on.