Hello folks. Id appreciate any insight into this hand. Im particularly interested in what people would do on the turn. Thanks


Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players

Hero (CO): $25 (100 bb)
BTN: $21.85 (87.4 bb)
SB: $13.18 (52.7 bb)
BB: $33.03 (132.1 bb)
UTG: $16.47 (65.9 bb)
MP: $7.85 (31.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7 7
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.62, Hero calls $0.62, 2 folds, BB calls $0.37

Flop: ($1.96) J T 7 (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $1.55, BB calls $1.55, MP calls $1.55

Turn: ($6.61) 5 (3 players)
BB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $4.25, BB calls $4.25, MP raises to $5.68 and is all-in, Hero calls $1.43, BB calls $1.43

River: ($23.65) 3 (3 players, 1 is all-in)
BB checks, Hero checks

What were the results? Flush but not the nuts and 2 pair J and 10? Flush over flush? Someone with AJ maybe?

I was advised to post hands without the result. Il pop it up when I get some more feedback.

Results are 100% irrelevant. Looks fine to me.

I only bet $2.50 on Turn so I can get a side pot started with BB. Perhaps 3-bet to $7.50/8.00 or something. It does open up the door to a 4-bet jam by BB but I would've expected a reaction from BB against my initial Turn bet rather than waiting for the other action to filter through. Based on BB action he either has high draw or nuts right now .. call, call mode .. check on River is irrelevant and results based.

Hero bet size would be extremely weak on Turn at $2.50 but I would like the opportunity to get that side pot started. We know that MP is either folding or shoving on the Turn a very high percentage of the time so I am gearing up to my response to BB. We also know that there are a ton of cards on River that are bad for us besides a fourth flush card .. basically anything 9 or higher IMO.

This may be too aggressive for online cash regs, but ... GL

for the stakes you play , I guess it's fine

You played it right. Don't like that there was 3 to a straight on the board as well, but it is what it is.

yeah, i probably wouldn't want to play in such a way that the BB folds everything worse/jams anything better over MP's shove/gets price to call should he be drawing

The turn bet size looks "wrong", because of MP's stacksize. I think a smaller bet or even a check back (with a plan to call all safe rivers, or make a small v-bet) might be better. When both players call on the flop, one of them has a flush or a better set pretty often. Bottom set isn't much more than a bluff-catcher if villains are competent. I think BB is probably a fish, though. He had Jx with a club or just the naked Ac, right? Either that, or you had the 3rd best hand on every street and BB was trapping all the way, planning to check-jam the river.

Arty, you know 'Stars cash player infinitely better than I do, but bottom set is only crushed by 7 combos (JJ, TT, 98), but I have to think that even at 25NL, OP is ahead or drawing live vs more than 14 combos (A x; K Qx; KxQ plus non-nut made flushes) so I'd hate to not bet the turn since he'll get less value when the draws miss. I'd bet a little smaller (maybe $3.50) but I think checking back OTT gives up value in the long run.

My other piece of rationale (and I'm a broken record on this) is to disabuse beginners from getting timid hoping to save money when flopped sets are beat which costs them more money in the long run the times they hold up.

But I've never hidden my pathologic opposition to folding flopped sets.

there's a time when your hand becomes the one with the draw, rather than the one betting to protect against drawing hands. on a flop where a straight and flush is possible and there's two opponents, this is one of them

makes sense

Thanks very much for the replies. I figured I had nine outs on the turn and needed to protect against the fourth club. If BB checked the turn and MP shoved would people call taking into account his stack size.

10 outs. Don't forget the case 7

think about it, discuss it, but don't sweat it....this sort of hand will never make FA difference to you overall win rate.

Mate, that is a truly awful way to think about a hand. Stick around in BQ and the lights will come on.

I was just eager to know the outcome rather than thinking about the hand. Probably exactly why it was suggested to the OP not to post the results and get feedback on the hand not the result. I wondered if he got spanked which is why he posted. I'll focus on the play the next time someone posts a question like this rather than jump to the result. Ty

You have a set and somehow there isn't even a 100bb pot with 3 people. I'd say this is right about the amount of money you want to get in there in this spot, especially when you've bet the streets where villains can still call with worse hands (draws, two pair, pair+club etc etc) which can't call on river. MP has a horrible stack and makes it awkward but checking back I think is a mistake.

100% fine by me, might even bet small on the river but I don't know if you even get called by worse enough. I suspect you will but either way is pretty close.

That's fine. I'm more of a "win a small pot, not lose a big one" kind of guy, and I check back more than is probably healthy, as this allows me to make better decisions on later streets. (Villains often give free info with their betsizes, or they check again).

I agree with this to some extent too. The turn is a really weird spot, and I'd rely on reads before deciding if hero can/should keep betting for value.

If BB is a fish, you can v-bet the river to get looked up by Jx. I'm just concerned he was trapping, as I think it makes sense for him to check-call with nutted hands on the flop and turn, in order to check-shove the nut flush/straight flush on the river. As played, it should be MP that has the nuts, (his check-call/check-shove line multiway as the PFR looks incredibly strong, but his starting stack indicates it's more likely to be random spew).

It's such an uncommon spot (bottom set on a mono board multiway with weird stacks) that - as Fatboy pointed out - it's not really one that OP needs to worry over.

May we know the outcome now?

Sorry I was busy with work over the last day or so. I was primarily concerned with the turn bet and the bet sizing so thanks for the discussion. Its a help. I realize its a somewhat unusual hand but that's why I posted it.

Arty you were more or less on the money with your hand reading.


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