River situation with KK - Beginning Poker Questions

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River situation with KK

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11-09-2009 , 03:14 AM

PokerAnalyst

enthusiast

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 55

Full Tilt, $0.05/$0.10, NL10

Stacks:
Villain (BB) ($9.45)
Hero (CO) ($8.52)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is CO K

Hero raises to $0.30, SB reraises to $0.90, Hero calls $0.90

Flop: 4

($1.90, 2 players)
SB bets $1.10, Hero calls $1.10

Turn: 5

($4.10, 2 players)
SB bets $3.10, Hero calls $3.10

River: A

($10.30, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero?

I'm a 30/20/5, and Villain is a 3/3/1. How's my line? Thanks.

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11-09-2009 , 03:20 AM

Combat Waitress

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,789

4bet pre

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11-09-2009 , 03:32 AM

Droogie

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,303

His range is basically TT+, AKs and he played this hand like an overpair, shutting down on the river when the A hits which shifts his range to being more likely TT-KK then AKs-AA.

If you think he is capable of calling here with TT-KK then bet, if not then check behind as there is no value in betting when only a hand with at least one Ace calls you.

I think you played the hand fine up to this point including preflop as I feel a call is more profitable than a 4bet against this villain.

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11-09-2009 , 03:35 AM

Combat Waitress

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,789

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droogie

I feel a call is more profitable than a 4bet against this villain.

To induce postflop spew?

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11-09-2009 , 03:47 AM

Droogie

old hand

Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,303

Quote:

Originally Posted by Combat Waitress

To induce postflop spew?

Since OP is in position (huge here!) and villain is so tight he is likely to fold everything you beat preflop. So basically, yes... in the hope that he will stack off with TT-QQ postflop.

Of course if you think he will get QQ and AK all-in preflop then things change.

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11-09-2009 , 03:47 AM

hoplo

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,265

4bet.
i would reraise on turn or so. I don't think putting his range on just TT+ AJ AK AQ , it's possible that lower pp and hit a set but highly unlikely bc of 3bet . That all in on the river with the A makes me think he was betting with AK, AQ. TT -QQ would have checked on that A.

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11-09-2009 , 03:50 AM

ocnap

journeyman

Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 286

Would a reraise on the flop be appropriate here?

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11-09-2009 , 04:27 AM

carradioyes

adept

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,011

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocnap

Would a reraise on the flop be appropriate here?

I would say absolutely.

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11-09-2009 , 04:33 AM

Combat Waitress

old hand

Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,789

Quote:

Originally Posted by Droogie

He's tight doesn't mean he will fold QQ pre lol. It just means hes raising range = his 3betting range.

By calling, the best thing result is if an A flops and he has a set of A, saving you money. Conversely, if an A flops, you will lose value when he has QQ/JJ, and if an A doesn't flop, you won't lose any less money if he has AA.

BTW position doesn't mean **** here

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11-09-2009 , 08:18 AM

#10

deathduck

old hand

Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,357

i would raise the turn, there's so many draws out there and he probably won't give you credit w/ a weaker overpair.

edit: 3/3/1 heads up??? Who is this guy? I would probably 4 bet him because I don't think he's folding and I'm not worried about KK vs AA especially heads up.

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11-09-2009 , 10:43 AM

#11

r3m1x

grinder

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 601

check behind here?

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11-09-2009 , 10:55 AM

#12

EATITPAL

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 5,047

4bet pre, villain will always call with worse. The tightest range we could assign to him would be QQ+ AKs, which we are still crushing his range anyway. Get it all in pre, as played, raise the flop and look to get it in. Shove the river as you are giving villain very good odds to call with whatever he has.

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11-09-2009 , 11:18 AM

#13

Spraggy

Just Plain Nasty

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 9,095

Villain never double barrels air. Villain never checks Ax on river. Villain has TT-QQ. Hero shoves for value.

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11-09-2009 , 03:30 PM

#14

Youda02

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 125

I've only started using Poker Tracker but have used it quite extensively since I started. When you say you're a 30/20/5, and Villain is a 3/3/1 do you mean VP$IP/PF%/WSD% or do I have the stats in the wrong order or wrong stat? The stats you provided seem to make sense for VP$IP which would mean villian is extremely tight but not sure what his WSD% number is (In this situation I would base my value bet decision on his WSD%). I can give better discussion if I knew what these stats represent.

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11-09-2009 , 03:47 PM

#15

MSmith19

grinder

Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 490

Villain doesn't check any ace hands on the river when you're showing absolutely no aggression. After the aces are excluded, you have every hand in his range beat. Shove river because value bet seems to be wierd.

The fact that he slows down on the river tells us that if you hold an ace you have him beat. If he had a set, he wouldn't be checking the river. His range to me seems very tight- something like TT-QQ, KQs or a missed draw.

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11-09-2009 , 03:52 PM

#16

Youda02

centurion

Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 125

Sorry guys I should have read the FAQ thread section. I think you guys are referring to VP$IP/WSD%/AF which means your guy is extremely tight, solid player and aggression factor is neutral or normal. Based on this and if I've grouped the stats in the right order I would just check the river as a bet against this guy would lose more money in the long run. Again if his WSD% was greater than 39% in a full ring game I would value bet it. Looking at his stats I'm not quite sure if you've given the WSD% stat because that is what I would use to determine the value bet on the river with an Ace on board against this guy.

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11-09-2009 , 03:56 PM

#17

stretford

grinder

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 472

On the river you obv get it in. Villian has about 3.50 left and the pot is over 10. He almost certainly have QQ-99, no?

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11-09-2009 , 04:22 PM

#18

mmac900

banned

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 3,197

Its almost certain he is afraid of that ace, in which case you have him beat. I would just make him get all his money in at that point.

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11-09-2009 , 05:01 PM

#19

dimebar

adept

Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 895

Quote:

Originally Posted by Youda02

its vpip/pfr/af probably

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11-09-2009 , 05:04 PM

#20

mikekelley

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 2,192

this hand is played horribly, as others have pointed out, 4 bet pre, raise flop, and so on.

as played check behind or shove it in, either would be okay just dont put out a meager raise.

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11-09-2009 , 05:07 PM

#21

SparkOA

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by carradioyes

I would say absolutely.

I like re-raising on the flop here, you have disguised the strength of your hand by smooth calling the 3-bet in position. I believe TT-QQ still stacks off to you here and you really don't stand to make any more money off AK, unless he hits an Ace which would be a good reason to get it in at this point ahead.

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