Seems that the general consensus on how to beat soft low stakes live games is to not worry about getting too creative and instead focus on getting max value out of monster hands. Which makes hands like Axss, suited connectors/one-gappers and all pairs valuable in their ability to hit hard for huge profits when donk chases his draws at bad odds or calls down with one pair.

My question is, at what price are you playing these types of hands? Obviously late position with a raise and multiple callers in front of you gives you the odds is an easy spot to call and see a flop.

These "standard" 5-10x raises in the live game throw me off. I know that this is a general question that depends on the table, image, and many other factors... but do you live regs have any advice on when to splash around with these types of hands and when to let them go?

Search for "implied odds"

Set mining: I look for +15:1 odds.

SC's +15-20:1

As always it can vary with opponents tendencies/etc.

A recommendation:

Throughout your lifetime of poker, the most common and difficult playable preflop hands you'll get dealt are AK, SC's, and small PP's. If you can be an expert with these hands you'll go a long way. So have a strategy for these hands based on real data.

For example, what I did was use the search function and print out all the good data I could find on set mining (maybe 50 articles) and then wrote up a 1-page summary of the data and put it in a folder. Then I studied it til I pretty much memorized it. Then I repeated it for AK and small PP.

Somehow going thru this process elevated my game much more than just reading articles.

In general, I like V to be deep and to be getting a minimum of 15:1 odds but I like V to be deeper since that increases the odds of him paying me off if I hit. That is, V's tend to splash around more when deep. So I "prefer" to be getting 20:1 in implied odds as well as 3:1 or more in direct odds.

The more villains that call, the better chance we have of getting paid off if we flop/turn gin.

But the other component to this isn't just the implied odds preflop but also the table dynamics post flop and villain tendencies post flop.

We want to target situations where are villains make post flop mistakes both passive and aggressive mistakes .

Lastly, I rarely if ever set mine heads up OOP vs standard raise sizing.

a general guide for decent speculative hands is the rule of 5 and 10

if it costs you less than 5% of the effective stack size to see the flop then call
if it costs you more than 10% of the effective stack size then fold
in between it's a judgement call

this should give you the required implied odds ahould you make your hand

So you wouldn't call 44 UTG? Or are you talking about after a pot's already been opened and post-flop situations?

I think he would. If he buys in for 100 bb at a $1/2 game, he'd be limping for $2 or 1% of his stack. If he thinks its likely the hand will be raised somewhere along the way, maybe he'll just fold the 44 PF and save himself $2.

Oh, I completely misread stack as pot.

DUH

you have to bear in mind that the earlier position you have the more likely there will be a subsequent raise which may result in not giving you enough implied odds if you call it so you would mostly call in late position with speculative hands

But couldn't you counter-balance that with aggression if you're talking about a small pair vs. suited connectors (which I would not go aggressive on)?

Say you're playing $1/2 and you're UTG with $100 and pocket 4's. You're a marginal favorite against anything other than a larger pair. Using the 5%-10% grey area rule, a 4bb raise to $10 would represent 10% of your stack but would push a lot of the the bingo playing hands out, no?

the 5 and 10 rule applies ONLY when you are considering if you have enough implied odds to call, or call a raise, in the hope of hitting a big hand on the flop. open raising or 3 betting with them is another matter entirely

google it and you will find some articles. it's mentioned in some poker books too including kill everyone in which they also mention a 3 and 6 rule for weaker speculative hands

Firstly, at $1/2, I'd want much more than $100 effective stacks to limp OR raise 44 UTG. Yea, your hand is marginally better than anything other than a higher pair but 1, as you are UTG there is a good chance there WILL be a higher pair behind you, and 2, you will have absolutely no idea where you are at on the flop, and 3, these marginal hands you have marginally beat ARE going to call. So, you have 44, raise, 3 players call behind and the BB comes along and the flop is QT5, or AJ2, or T97, or.... well, whatever.....unless you flop a lucky 4, you are in a VERY bad spot. The stacks would have to be pretty deep to ever consider raising 44 UTG and set-mining. I WILL raise it sometimes if there are numerous 200-300 stacks, but otherwise it's probably just a muck.

In general, I want 10x effective stacks to set-mine, and 20x for suited connectors. These numbers vary HIGHLY according to table dynamics and specific players. If a nit raises, for instance, and not much fear of a 3 bet behind, I would be much more inclined to set mine or SC-mine, than if a good lag raises. Why? Because the nits range is much stronger and thus if you hit you are more likely to get paid off. The good LAGs range is much weaker and, thus, even when you hit a monster, there is a good chance he will have nothing and will be good enough to fold whatever he does have. Basically, if a guy's only playing aa-jj, and ak/aq, and will have trouble laying down and over pair or flopped top pair, these are the ones you want to target at 10x/20x effective stacks, better/looser players I'd want more like 15x/30x (pairs/SC).

good hand reading makes for better estimation of implied odds

Nice thread, I always looked for at least 10-15 to 1 odds.. good seeing some posts above