If i look in my pokertracker i see a huge amount of rake. I just play nl50 but the rake is up to 550 a month. If i see how much rake i pay for a limp and how much i pay when i win big pot i still don't think i get anywere near this amount of money.

Better said if for instance there is no rake at all would my monthly porfit be 500 more?

Get RakeBack.

obviously.

It isnt some made up number, its what you actually paid in rake.

Of course, to be fair if there was no rake there would likely be no poker rooms.

Yes, you would be +$500 then. Pretty sick isn't it? Unfortunately, poker sites are not charities so rake is unavoidable.

There was a site with no rake but no one played there(WSEX).

Plenty of sites offer rakeback. In the US these normally range from about 27-33%. Get rakeback and at least get a piece of that $500 back.

Edit: If you're really in Amsterdam as your loc says, many Euro sites offer pretty high rakeback. Ask/look around. Just keep in mind some of these sites may charge more in rake to begin with. Also, rakeback shouldn't be the only equation in picking a site-consider all variables.

I ve paid 1000$ in rake at .02nl on everest
no rakeback
I ve moved elsewhere now

ty for al the advice, i already have rake back but i still think the amount of rake you pay is just insane. Now i know why sites offer great deposit bonusses and have well payed pro's.

Let's be fair i just play the micro's and i pay a huge amount of rake and what does the pr have to do for this money? Just make the software run and be sure there is some helpdesk. It's nothing compare to a real casino which have a building employees etc.

I can imagine i have to share some of my profit with the poker room but in my case the rake in winning month is 70% of my totall profit so when i win a 1000 i also payed 700 rake. That's insane if you knew that in loosing months you do not have any profit and still you pay rake.

And now the goverment also wants you to pay tax

Is there any website were you can see what pr have the lowest rake and the best rakeback deals

It's not insane if people will pay it. The majority will usually be losing players anyway.

k first they bring you players you can beat. Run out of time but will be back

The rake is one thing that people do not really see. You don't just have to be better than your opponents, you have to be at least the rake better and that can be hard.

A couple of years ago, there tended to be a vast difference between players but the amount of information available now (books, TV, forums such as this) has narrowed the gap considerably. I suspect that when the poker bubble bursts (as all bubbles invariably do) people will refer to 'selling shovels'.

I have some doubts the rake we see in HEM is acurate.

My lifetime winnigs since i installed HEM is 704 EU

And acording to HEM i payed 638 EU in rake, i find that hard to belive.

Why is that hard to believe?

To take a tourney example say you play $9+$1s with an roi of 10%. Your rake will equal your winnings. It's not an unlikely scenario. Cash games, a 5% no-cap will cost you ~2½% of your stack on a 'coinflip' (simple examples)

Rake is a big deal. I took a while to realise my winrate was comparably high partly because my site capped pots at 50 cents in a 25NL game. I was shocked when I looked at other sites (Ongame/Bwin no longer have this cap afaik)

So it's not enough to just be a bit better than your opponents. Some have to be significantly worse than you.

That stat is total rake of all the pots. It is not the rake you actually paid.

100% wrong. It is the amount you solely contributed.

I think you are right, although its very confusing with all these oposing statements, but I simply can not belive i payd so much rake.

Im not the greatest at mathematics but just to make a quick calculation that may be somewhat off, but still should prove that the rake HEM list can not be what i peronally paid.

My total winnings is 704 EU.
Acording to HEM rake stats i payd 638 EU to rake.

The rake on the site i play is aproximately 5 %

5 % of 704 is about 35 EU.

So from pots I won, the rake i payd was 35 EU.

So i should have payd more than 600 EU in rake to pots i was eather not involved in, or pots where the majority of the times i folded on the flop, or turn. with my logic the rake i payd in these pots should be even less that the rake i payd from the pots i won ?

So from this simple litle calcualtion, wich i know is not that acurate, but its acurate enough to prove my point. I can simply not belive the rake in HEM can be true.

But i would like if there is someone out there that can tell me maybe what is wrong with my quick calculation, or can give a good explanation, how it could be posibel i have payd 638 EU in rake.

You are wrong because you pay rake on every single pot. Say you win a $10 pot and pay $0.50 in rake, next hand you lose a 10$ pot. Your winning are now -$0.50 and you have paid 50 cent in rake. Now think about how many small pots you have won/lost. Every time you have won a pot rake have been taken out and you have paid that in rake.

Losing players are also paying rake, how do you think people become rakeback pros? If he rake only was taken out of somebodys winning there wouldn't be breakeven grinders living off rakeback.

Hmm, im sorry i dont want to come of like some kind of degen, or anything and i hope we can keep the discusion civilised (As we have been doing so far )

Anyway i am still not convinsed, and i think maybe the problem is some sites calculates the rake in a different way to other sites, and maybe HEM can not understand this when it makes its calculations.

Another weird thing is.

Since i have installed HEM i have played 43892 hands NL 4.
HEM says that i have played in 19730 raked hands and payd 200 EU in rake at NL 4

I have played VPip 12,4. PFR 6,0. 3B 1,8. this means out of 43892 i have played about 20 % hands = 8780 hands.

But HEM says i have payd rake in 19730 hands. Ok i know there are some hands i have been in the blinds, but those are much less than the 10 K hands diference between my 20 % hands played ( 8780 hands) and the hands HEM sayd i payd rake too ( HEM hands rakes 19730)

That should be 10000 hands i contributed to the rake from the blinds alone, it just seems a bit off to me, if this can really be true.

Also for someone who gets Rakeback, would it be normal to get say 50 EU ( 25 % of 200 EU rake) back from a rakeback deal when playing 40 K hands at NL 4. if you had about 25 % RB deal ?

You are right that there are different ways to calculate the rake used for rakeback, but that doesn't mean that HEM wont give you a ballpark figure. It might not be totally precise, but you know just about how much you have paid.

I can tell you that I played 52k hands last month and got just over 11 BI in rakeback with 30% rakeback. That would give you just under 9 BI for 42k hands with 30%rakeback or around 7.5 BI with 25% rakeback. At 4 NL that would be €30. However as I play significantly higher than 4 NL I will have way more pots that are capped, so proportionally you would be paying more rake than I. I don't think it is unrealistic that you would get €50 in rakeback for 42k hands at 4 NL.

As for the way HEM calculates raked hands I simply don't know so I can't help you there.

All I can say is that a lot of people would be surprised by the amount of rake they are paying, but that is how the poker sites makes their money. Considering how much money the bigger pokersites make (and I actually have no idea about how much that is, but it is a lot) it nshould be clear that the money have to come from somewhere and that will be it's customers and once you realise that the rake are capped you will understand that it isn't the high stakes players who are paying these sums, it is mid-stakes and below who the sites really are making their money on.

some sites work their rake/rakeback calculations on dealt method, meaning if you are dealt into a hand and fold they will allow you a share of the rake. ie every raked pot gets divided among the no of players at the table.

Sure it will affect the actual rake paid number in that nits will pay slightly less than the dealt number and lags will pay more

but the number is close. and the rake taken by sites is a sick sick number

Well ok yuo give a really good explanition Ertbjerg. and the more i come to think about it the more i think i am wrong and you are right, even deep inside i still find it a litle hard to belive its actually that much.

You are not bluffing me are you ??

No anyway seriously i really think i was wrong because i begin to understand the money i won 704 EU, i have actually won and lost those money many many times, over and over again and they just builded up litle by litle so that why the number i payd to rake 638 EU seems so high compared to my overall winnings.

the theory on pots going back and forth is correct. Lets say in a theoretic game. There is $100 on a table from all players. Its AI pf all around. most sites take 5% up to $3 etc. So after 1 hand there is only $97 left. AI again $94 left. Its a bit extreme but you get the point.

Basically every pot that is won the site is taking $5 out of it. every hand of every table of every game. Sure they give out some back to players in RB and bonuse. But they still take alot. Also alot of players dont know about bonuses or forget about their points and move on or else spend the points on a hat that they are purchasing for ~$25 worth of points that is worth like $5 lol

You are right. I have my PT3 stats setup differently. Carryon.

I have been focusing on putting in a lot of volume in 10nl 6-max. In less than a month, so far, I've put in about 41.4k hands. I have also paid just over $550 in rake -- based on the "dealt" method at Full Tilt uses. This amount seems insane but my rakeback confirms that this is the amount they have "credited" me for. Of course, FTP has a 6.5% rake at that level so it's proportionately higher than it would be for higher stakes.

It doesn't shock me at all that you can pay over $550 in rake playing 50nl in a month. Seems about right.

The average rake in the 10nl 6-max rush games (over my sample) amounts to a -6.65ptBB/100 hit to your winrate (-4.86ptBB/100 with RB figured in). If you want to be a winning or break-even player... you need to be good enough to beat the other players by at least that much consistently or the rake will wipe you out. Thankfully, there are people who are really bad at that level and it's not impossible to stay ahead of the rake. But it makes you wonder how quickly the worst players must be losing their money.

Rake is a total money pit... and those pennies add up. I doubt very many players really think about how much they are paying when they play.

This year i have payed 13000$ in rake and my total profit is 1500$

I beat the players but rake is owning me ....kinda sick

Kinda hurts doesn't it? This month up $500 but paid $4500 in rake. I almost cry thinking about how I would be rolling in the $ if there was no rake!