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pot odds...am i doing this right???? pot odds...am i doing this right????

01-10-2008 , 08:27 PM
okay so look at this hand....

(hand cliffs notes) i had KQ and was 4seats to the right of the big blind (middle position). i raised. the blinds and a limper in early position called me. the flop was 8s Ah 3c they checked to me and i checked. then a ten came giving me a gutshot to the nuts. then somone bet into me. the pot was giving me 1-5, and my gutshot was 1-4 to come in, but i folded. should i have called? am i playing too passively? are pot odds this straightforward?

(sure enough, the queen came on the river.)

here is the exact hand:

PokerStars Game #14465478938: Hold'em Limit ($0.10/$0.20) - 2008/01/10 - 19:12:16 (ET)
Table 'Alhena III' 10-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: molon lawe ($4.86 in chips)
Seat 2: kika8 ($3.90 in chips)
Seat 3: sugarstx2006 ($6.72 in chips)
Seat 4: mrjtman ($5.85 in chips)
Seat 5: pumpthatiron ($3.80 in chips)
Seat 6: Absinthus ($12.42 in chips)
Seat 7: wonderboy555 ($1.16 in chips)
Seat 8: furthurest ($3.75 in chips)
Seat 9: Bogmarten ($3.85 in chips)
Seat 10: sweettiger11 ($2.68 in chips)
sweettiger11: posts small blind $0.05
molon lawe: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pumpthatiron [Qc Ks]
kika8: folds
sugarstx2006: calls $0.10
mrjtman: folds
pumpthatiron: raises $0.10 to $0.20
Absinthus: folds
wonderboy555: folds
furthurest: folds
Bogmarten: folds
sweettiger11: calls $0.15
molon lawe: calls $0.10
sugarstx2006: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [8s Ah 3c]
sweettiger11: checks
molon lawe: checks
sugarstx2006: checks
pumpthatiron: checks
*** TURN *** [8s Ah 3c] [Ts]
sweettiger11: checks
molon lawe: checks
sugarstx2006: bets $0.20
pumpthatiron has timed out
pumpthatiron: folds
pumpthatiron is sitting out
sweettiger11: folds
pumpthatiron has returned
molon lawe: raises $0.20 to $0.40
sugarstx2006: raises $0.20 to $0.60
molon lawe: raises $0.20 to $0.80
Betting is capped
sugarstx2006: calls $0.20
*** RIVER *** [8s Ah 3c Ts] [Qh]
molon lawe: bets $0.20
sugarstx2006: raises $0.20 to $0.40
molon lawe: raises $0.20 to $0.60
sugarstx2006: raises $0.20 to $0.80
Betting is capped
molon lawe: calls $0.20
*** SHOW DOWN ***
sugarstx2006: shows [8h 8d] (three of a kind, Eights)
molon lawe: shows [Td Th] (three of a kind, Tens)
molon lawe collected $3.81 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $4 | Rake $0.19
Board [8s Ah 3c Ts Qh]
Seat 1: molon lawe (big blind) showed [Td Th] and won ($3.81) with three of a kind, Tens
Seat 2: kika8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: sugarstx2006 showed [8h 8d] and lost with three of a kind, Eights
Seat 4: mrjtman folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pumpthatiron folded on the Turn
Seat 6: Absinthus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: wonderboy555 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: furthurest folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Bogmarten (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: sweettiger11 (small blind) folded on the Turn
pot odds...am i doing this right???? Quote
01-10-2008 , 08:33 PM
There's 46 cards left and 4 of them are jacks.

That's 42-4 or 10.5-1.

So with only 5-1 on your money and players behind who may raise this is an easy fold.
pot odds...am i doing this right???? Quote
01-10-2008 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJoker
There's 46 cards left and 4 of them are jacks.

That's 42-4 or 10.5-1.

So with only 5-1 on your money and players behind who may raise this is an easy fold.
oh yeah i am stupid i was thinking turn and river coming! LOL

if it was the turn and river then i would be correct to call though, right?
pot odds...am i doing this right???? Quote
01-10-2008 , 08:59 PM
1 - (43/47)(42/46) = 16.5%

83.5-16.5 = 5-1

So you'd be 5-1 against for both cards. But you have to take into account your effective odds, if you miss on the turn and your opponent bets then that has severely reduced your pot odds. The other side of the coin is implied odds but since you'll miss so often these are going to have less of an effect.

I don't know what conventional wisdom is for drawing to guthots in limit since I don't play. In no limit it's not recommended.
pot odds...am i doing this right???? Quote
01-10-2008 , 11:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedJoker
1 - (43/47)(42/46) = 16.5%

83.5-16.5 = 5-1

So you'd be 5-1 against for both cards. But you have to take into account your effective odds, if you miss on the turn and your opponent bets then that has severely reduced your pot odds. The other side of the coin is implied odds but since you'll miss so often these are going to have less of an effect.

I don't know what conventional wisdom is for drawing to guthots in limit since I don't play. In no limit it's not recommended.
I agree, and I would just like to add that if you're the aggressor, betting a gutshot is of course fine as it gives you two ways to win - I often like to combined it with a c-bet on a flop, which often means a lot of FE but still leave you some outs to draw. BUT, however, drawing when you have to call a bet is *almost* always too expensive in NL, even if you get to see both turn and river.
pot odds...am i doing this right???? Quote

      
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