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pot controlling pot controlling

10-08-2009 , 01:51 AM
i think this is one of my biggest leaks. making pots way too big with coordinated boards.

ex: hero has AA. flop: 9/8/10.

is it ok to be passive against some villans ranges with overpairs, tptk, etc?
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10-08-2009 , 02:33 AM
what stakes do you play ? in tournaments lol ?
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10-08-2009 , 02:57 AM
AA on 89T always sucks and you can't always check fold and check/calling is almost never correct. I guess learn to bet/fold.
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10-08-2009 , 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Combat Waitress
AA on 89T always sucks and you can't always check fold and check/calling is almost never correct. I guess learn to bet/fold.
We're not bet folding, because there's tons of hands we're going to get value from that can c/r this flop, like JT, J9, J8, QT, Q9, Q8, QQ, JJ, 77, 66, 87, 86, 97, aswell as flush draws/combo draws if it's applicable. I think bet/calling is best against a standard player and then analysing the turn, if we're going to ship it in, it's probably best to do it on a safe turn card so we've got a lot more equity than if we ship it on the flop.

Generally we can pot control with reasonable hands and bluff catch on the river, which gets us more value than if we just bet, bet, bet, generally we're getting a fold on the turn.
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10-08-2009 , 06:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~run.it.twice
We're not bet folding, because there's tons of hands we're going to get value from that can c/r this flop, like JT, J9, J8, QT, Q9, Q8, QQ, JJ, 77, 66, 87, 86, 97, aswell as flush draws/combo draws if it's applicable. I think bet/calling is best against a standard player and then analysing the turn, if we're going to ship it in, it's probably best to do it on a safe turn card so we've got a lot more equity than if we ship it on the flop.

Generally we can pot control with reasonable hands and bluff catch on the river, which gets us more value than if we just bet, bet, bet, generally we're getting a fold on the turn.
Basically:

bet/call flop and c/f turn if ugly otherwise ship it

OR

bet flop and if called bet/fold turn if ugly otherwise ship it

??

Seems to be what I usually do (but I'm never that sure)
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10-08-2009 , 06:20 AM
I'm not really the greatest guy to ask either 'cos these spots bug me too, but we're not folding the flop for sure, unless specific read that villain doesn't semi-bluff. It's obviously very villain dependent, a ton of fish like to go crazy with TP w/ open ender, so in position we can generally see a turn card, and decide from there, usually we're going to get a lot of information from timing tells and bet sizing, so we can look at them before deciding if to ship.

Out of position though, it's difficult as you say, bet/calling the flop and then bet/folding the turn seems a little spewy as he's probably doing it with a similar range with what he does on the flop, so it's difficult, and something I'd appreciate someone more experienced talking about, I'm also bad in these spots.
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10-08-2009 , 08:52 AM
this is probably my number 1 leak. i end up 3betting flops, wanting to get it in. 3/4 of the time were flipping, or villan has sets/ 2 pairs.

how bad is a bet/fold in these situations? lets say u have a read on villan. this isn't weak passive?
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