Quote:
Originally Posted by madlex
For some people they do, for others they don’t. And then there’s a pretty big group of (former) pros who started to hate the game after some time.
Why? Because it’s a mentally taxing grind that kills the joy of the game. At some point lots of people also come to the conclusion that they are a huge net negative for society. A poker pro doesn’t provide any real value for other people’s life except for when he loses and the other person is happy about winning. As soon as you play some higher stakes, you are also confronted with the fact that a significant part of your income results from other players gambling problem/addiction. That’s something that is only visible at live poker, not online, but you still know it’s there.
Besides that, there are a couple other online/live specific things, that bother some pros but certainly not everybody. Online, you “work” at home alone, without any social interaction with “co-workers” except for your skype study groups and things like that. Live, you spend your time at the casino around people who are close to the nut low of society. Sounds harsh, but just take a look around and ask yourself if that’s the people you want to be around all day, every day.
The financial gratification from poker is potentially huge, but that’s basically the only form of gratification you get. And you always only have one, financial success or happy customers, never both.
Again, some people are not bothered by that at all, especially if they are what others would call “gamblers”. For others it’s a really serious issue. You have to play all day, every day for a while to find out what type you are.
Yeah the mental grind can get you for sure.
I will disagree on the huge net negative though, gambling itself is the huge net negative NOT poker which is a game of mostly skill. If you want to look at great social evils, look at casinos in general or the state run lottery system, those things are socially allowed despite the fact you have no chance of winning.
Say what you will about poker, but most players are probably 2-3k and 50-75 hours away from being able to absolutely crush 1/2 live or beat decent stakes online (25NL+), the same cannot be said about other MUCH larger games like roulette, slots and lottery tickets.
Poker also teaches you important life skills like:
1.Emotional awareness and dealing with negative emotions
2.Dealing with upswings and downswings
3.Understanding variance and understanding how it can play a role in life, i.e job openings, girls you like not having bfs, avoiding or having illnesses etc etc
4.Money management and long term planning
So relative to other degenerate habits, poker isn't even that degenerate on the gambling front, nver mind the drugs or sex front.
As far as what it "does" for society, I guess this is the sort of worldview people might concern themselves with if they think that society generally is good or at least the one they live in and in certain ways it is, but in certain other ways like the encroachment on liberty and people's through state sponsored force is extremely troubling, never mind all the blatant lies they peddle and build society around. So I think that although it's a good place where these concerns are coming from, they also come from
1.General ignorance about what society ALREADY IS
2.General ignorance of true philosophical and political concepts
The people thing I definitely agree with if you grind live or if you're away from them and have a hard time making friends. Personally I love being alone and have always made friends extremely easily, so it's not a problem for me at all.
I think the real problem is the lack of money to be made from simply "showing up" online, the games are just much tougher and making 50k aka a decent living is much tougher today that it ever was WITHOUT doing things that were entirely unnecessary in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpinMeRightRound
I still think you're way off with your numbers. Have you played the Pokerstars Zoom games over a large sample? I find it impossible that anyone could achieve 12bb/100 at 25nl zoom. Like I say, I didn't run into a single fish when I tested those games out a few days ago. Perhaps 12bb/100 is possible with very strict table selection at regular tables, but certainly not zoom.
https://www.blackrain79.com/2014/06/...d-small_6.html
That's a site dedicated to low stakes, so I gave a slightly higher estimate at 25NL. 10NL is pure garbage though, you should be able to at least sustain high teen bb/100 (I only had 7k hands was around 23 bb/100) and yeah 25NL is much tougher, but I still think that top players might be able to push 10+.