wow, im actually embarrassed as I type this. I need help or exercises on how to evaluate my draw hands on flop in PLO

What do I mean?

Well I ve been reading Hwangs first PLO book and I got what constitutes as a good hand and bad hand pre. But I am having trouble understanding how BIG my draw is on the flop.

example

I have A-Q-J-8

FLOP : A-T-9

Supposedly I have a 17 card wrap. however I am seeing that only a 7 and a K can make me a straight.

unless we also count Flush draws in wraps. I dont see what else helps me make a straight?

it is hands like these that confuse me and take me a little while to process and figure out how big my draw is and whatnot. THIS is a CRUCIAL and fundamental begginer concept that I must PAT down before I move on. I am thinking about just re reading Hwangs straight chapter and dissecting the hand and flops as exercises and hoping to quicker see what my draws are.

Was wondering if anyone could give me advice on this

any Q,J or 8 also gives you a straight.

eg if a Q comes on the turn, you use your J and 8 to make 8-9-T-J-Q (but note that you don't have the nut straight - anyone holding K,J beats you with 9-T-J-Q-K)

So one of the things to be aware of is that although you might have x outs, some of them may not be to the nuts, so shovelling money into the pot just because hey, I made a straight, might prove costly.

Normally when people are talking about wraps outs, they're not referring to the additional outs that a flush draw might give them. So a wrap + a flush draw (especially the nut flush draw) can be a monster hand.

Conversely, a wrap when there's a flush draw out there, which you don't have, is seriously devalued.

EDIT to add:

4 K's --> you use Q,J to make a straight
3 Q's --> you use J,8
3 J's --> you use Q,8
3 8's --> you use Q,J
4 7's --> you use J,8

so 17 cards that give you a straight, but some of those straights won't be the nut straight, and even if you do make the best straight, some of those 'outs' will have put a flush out there.

Best way to get your head around this stuff (in my opinion) is to go through your hand histories and do a ton of work trying to estimate your equity against the current nuts, using an equity simulator like ProPokerTools, and then start on estimating your equity against villain's likely range.

wow thank you. I really need to get my eyes on HHs and also further study sample texts and examples.


Thanks

You have been playing NL up to now ? Evaluating PLO hands can be tricky at first.

HHs will help in reading PLO hands, but in my experience there was no substitute for just playing.

Don't play too many tables, and for each hand that you get (whether you play it or not), think to yourself - what would you like to see on the flop that could give villain a big enough piece to stack off, but have you comfortably in front. Any hand you see the flop with, list your potential outs.

More good advice. Thank you. Yes, I was embarrassed to post this because I have been playing NL for awhile and wondered why the hell I am struggling mightily in knowing what cards can help me make a straight and whatnot. When I play I know that perhaps I overlook some draws and just flat out don;t see them as well as I should. I actually have to take a step back and think of all the str8 possibilities I might have. Its ****tty but something I have to get used too. I think starting at one table has helped me a bit