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Playing deep Playing deep

11-23-2012 , 03:59 AM
The majority of my play time is multi tabling 4NL 6-Max.
The questions I have are about playing deep.
What stack size is exactly deep?

I know when I get in 200-300bb at a single table, my play doesn't change.
However, just going through some of these posts, apparently my play should change.

So what kind of changes should occur when I've got a deep stack?
Playing deep Quote
11-23-2012 , 04:31 AM
It's all about implied odds, and your risk when compared to your stack.

Say you have 30bb, and you're thinking of calling a 10bb bet when you have a gutshot straight draw on a rainbow board.

You're risking 33.3333% of your stack on that call, which means that it is extremely significant when accounting for your stack size.

However, if you have 300bb, and you're facing a 10bb bet for that same gutshot, you are only risking 3.3333% of your stack for the same call. That's where the difference comes in.

When you have a big stack as compared to the blinds like that, you should be more apt to open up your raising, and calling range. Of course, you don't want to go completely insane, but plays are much easier to make depending upon the size of your stack.

Situation:

I personally don't flat call $12 with suited connectors from BTN in 1/2 when I only have $100 in my stack, but I might if I have $200 in my stack, and probably will if I have $300+. Once you get to 150-200bb, your game can open up a lot because your stack can take a little bit of punishment.
Playing deep Quote
11-23-2012 , 04:41 AM
In cash it doesn't matter how much of your stack you're risking for the call strictly speaking, the relevant variable is how much you're going to win if you hit your hand (in which your stack size is admittedly a factor).

Something I need to check OP knows - even if you're 1M bb deep, you're not 'deep-stacked' unless someone else at the table is also deep-stacked - i.e. the effective stack is deep.
Playing deep Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:01 AM
I'm sorry, but it definitely does matter how much of your stack you're risking to call in cash unless you're just whimsically able to add money to your stack during the middle of a hand, which I have never seen before.

"How much you're going to win if you hit your hand" = implied odds, and implied odds are dependent upon the person's stack you're up against.

Situation:

If you have $200 in 1/2 in the BB, and UTG raises to $12 against you when he has something like $60 in his stack when everyone else folds, it is not mathematically correct for you to set mine with a mid-pair in hopes of stacking him.

However, if you're calling that $12 when you both have $200, it is a much easier call because your implied odds are so much bigger because you stand to make so much more money if you hit.


Of course, that is just one single situation, but the amount of your stack that your risking is still extremely relevant to cash poker.

Also, deep stack is relative to the blinds/antes, not to the stacks around you.

If you have 50k in a 5/10 game, you're most definitely deep stacked regardless (see also: especially) if everyone else at the table has only 5bb. Deep Stacked means that the blinds/antes are nearly insignificant to your stack, and usually has very little to do with the other stacks at the table.
Playing deep Quote
11-23-2012 , 05:30 AM
Yes, but the way your first post put it suggested it was the be-all end-all. If villain opens wide and never puts a bet in postflop without top pair or better, this is a much bigger factor (or at least, should be) in deciding whether to call preflop with 88 for instance than your stack size (or, I guess, necessitates a much bigger stack size to call unless you feel that you have an edge without hitting sets, which you probably should against the described villain).

As for the later point, do you come from a tournament background? If not, I guess that I worded it badly - you shouldn't alter your strategy to account for your greater stack size to a greater extent than you would if you had the largest other stack at the table.
Playing deep Quote
11-23-2012 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utiltinbro
The majority of my play time is multi tabling 4NL 6-Max.
The questions I have are about playing deep.
What stack size is exactly deep?

I know when I get in 200-300bb at a single table, my play doesn't change.
However, just going through some of these posts, apparently my play should change.

So what kind of changes should occur when I've got a deep stack?
Assumign someone else has 200-300b yeah you're deep. If it's you against 5 players with 50-120bb it's not deepstacked play and your game should be the same. Once one of those villains doubles up you're now deepstacked.

The dynamic will change, in both hands you play headsup and multiway with that other deep stacked player. Obviously preflop and flop stack of ranges tend to tighten, flatting of 3 bets become wider etc. However it's also important to not get out of line multiway.

eg. 250bb stack open UTG
50bb stack on the BTN 3 bets
you are in the BB and have TT

You might be happy to stack off for 60bb against the shortstack. You might have even been happy to 3bet the UTG player preflop if the BTN folded. Now you're essentially 4betting pre against his UTG range guessing how he's going to react. If he flats your 4bet there's a good chance the shortstack is shoving meaning getting even more money in the pot pre.

As you can see, decisions start to get complicated as you mix your deepstack play against those with short and even normal sized stacks. Often it's these multiway hands that will end up spiraling out of control.
Playing deep Quote

      
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