It's amazing that you can win 7bb/100 playing 14/12 in a 6max game. My VPIP/PFR is like that at FR and I'm considered a nit.
You can definitely steal more often on the button. You said players are loose, but if both guys to your left fold to steals 75% of the time or more, it's profitable to open 2.5bb, even if you fold every flop.
You could also call a little more often in the big blind against frequent stealers. Since they will have you flagged as a nit, they will expect you to have a real hand very often when you call. One thing I've been doing lately is check-raising dry flops vs stealers. If the flop comes T73r, villain usually has 2 overs. If you play it like a set (even if you have A4s or 55) by check-raising, they often instafold after making their standard c-bet, and might also stop trying to steal so often.
Post-flop stats are excellent, actually. If you can learn to fold overpairs/TPTK to "obvious" sets, you'll be crushing.

thank you
What would you say it normal stats for 6 max and how would you go about playing pocket pairs in the blinds vs stealers and opening them and calling them to set mine ?

Hello, 6-max limit nl25

Einstain said - "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results"
Maybe I'm insane? You do not know what I'm talking about? Ok look at my graph



Up and down, up and down and again up and down


I need your help because I do not know what I'm doing wrong. More stats







Need more specific statistics? Just tell


I will be grateful for any help.

You'd want your VPIP to be closer to 22%. When you're in a game, look at the stats of the other players. The guys you struggle against are likely to be playing 22/17 or 20/16. It's so much harder to put them on a range, when it's so much wider than yours. (If they raise UTG, you don't know if they have AA, or QJs, but when you open UTG, they know you don't have worse than AJs). When they see you playing 16%, they know your range is stronger than theirs, so will try stealing often, but give up when you play back. You can use your tight image to play back with weak hands.

You need to run some filters to see if set-mining in the blinds is working for you. I play full ring, and the smallest pairs aren't really making money for me in the blinds (or early position), but I'm trying a few strategies to see which is best. Apart from calling to set-mine, you have 3 main options and they all involve fold equity. You can 3-bet pre (expecting a fold), donk into the raiser on flops that contain no ace or picture card, or check-raise those low flops. In other words, you play the hand as if you flopped a set, even though you didn't have a set. Since villain often misses flops like T75r or 972tt, you generally have a better chance of winning the pot if you lead out or check-raise. You just have to make these plays against villains who are capable of folding. You can do the same thing with the occasional suited connector like 76s or a small suited ace like A4s. Just calling won't be profitable, and folding means you miss an opportunity too.

Yikes! The first graph is really swingy. The second reminds me of fgators' legendary effort. (+45 degree SD, -45 degrees non-showdown, over thousands of hands, breaking even overall, so he was basically flipping the whole time).
So let's see what's causing these results...

Some instant observations:
Winrate on the button is relatively low.
BB PFR is too low (5.5%). I presume you're only raising strong value hands (AK and JJ+) in that seat. At 25NL 6max, you've got to mix in some light 3-bets against frequent steals.
3-bet % is on the low side overall at 3.9%.
Turn c-bet is a little low. You've got to increase your barrelling frequency. AF is low at 2.04.
Stealing should be higher than 30%. ATS on the button isn't terrible at 40%, but you should be stealing much more often in SB vs BB (currently 30%). I play full ring and I try stealing in BvB more than 50% of the time and have a success rate of over 60%. You've got to widen your range there and really fight over the dead money. The range you use for steals on the button can be used in blind battles too. If you're limping in the SB often, just stop. Raise or fold!
Your river call efficiency is high at 2.10. This means you're calling with the best hand so often that you should actually be raising a lot of the time. Look for that extra value at showdown by getting your stack in if you're ahead of villain's range.

Overall, I think you're lacking the required aggression both pre- and post-flop to beat these stakes consistently. You're relying too much on just having the best hand at showdown when you call down. You've got to be betting and raising more frequently.

Unless you can ramp up your aggression and mix in some more bluffs (pre and post) you might just find that 6max is not the game for you. Your style would be better suited to full ring (if that's available at your stakes), as full ring is more about nut-peddling.
Becoming more aggressive at the table will result in more variance, but it's the only way you can improve your redline, which is pretty much vital at 6max at these limits. Try reading this thread for some advice: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...t-ever-791734/

Okay, so this is my second attempt at trying to beat the smallest micro stakes. The first time my numbers were all over the place, I didn't know about the importance of position.

This time was different. I read multiple articles about beating the micro stakes and I tried my best to import these into my game. I actually started off pretty good. I deposited $100 and within 2 days I had ran it up to $150 mainly because of a major donk at my table, unfortunately I was told that I needed to create a new account because some of the details on my account were incorrect, so the site took away the $50 I had won.

Back down to $100, I started grinding 4nl. Got it up to about $120 in a few days and I just couldn't seem to break the $120 mark, I hovered around $120 for about 5k hands, went through a downswing and ran down to $75.

So with $75 I decided to start fresh, my graph line was tilting me so I decided to start a new PT profile* and try to build my roll from $75. Pretty much the same thing happened again, I managed to get up to about $120, hovered for a few thousand hands, went on a downswing + some bad play and now I'm busto.

Here are my numbers + graph...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/7/statsmqv.png/ I was losing a huge amount in BB, I dunno if that number is normal but I don't think it is...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/706/graphmu.png/

Today was pretty bad, my sets constantly kept running into flushes, happened about 5 times within a short period of hands, even my AA's and KK's were running into flushes and I managed to lose quite a few buy-ins. I got down to $30 and just blew it on tournys.

I'm going to be giving this another go once I have some money. I'm going to deposit $200 and play 6nl. By looking at my numbers, what would you suggest I do different this time? What do you think was my leak(s)?

Firstly, stop obsessing over the dollar amounts. Just think of chips and big blinds and long term results (in bb/100) not how many cheeseburgers you could have bought.
Paying too much attention to your graph is also a leak. You should be focusing on making correct decisions, not whether you got paid or not. (i.e. If you got your money in good w/ AA on Kxx, but villain w/ KJ spiked a J on the river, then you lost the pot, but made a decision that will be profitable in the long run, as villain won't often suck out.) Tilting off your roll in a bunch of tournaments is also a bad decision. Only you can fix that leak.

But on to the stats...
19/17 overall is good for 6max, and you've become more positionally aware. You're playing too tight in the big blind, but that's OK for a while, as you're sussing out the game. (It's better to be too tight in the blinds than too loose).
AF in SB is extremely high, but this could just be variance in a small sample. If you kept getting dealt monsters, then it's fair enough. If you've been barrelling with air in the worst possible seat, then that's a huge mistake.
I'm quite surprised at how low your WTSD is in the BB, since your range there should be really strong. Maybe you're betting too hard or check-raising a little too often when you have a hand.

Apart from the big losses in the blinds, there isn't a whole lot wrong with the stats you've provided. I suspect you have many post-flop leaks. To identify those, I'd need to see stats for c-bet flop/turn, fold to c-bet, and how often you donk or check-raise.

To improve your blind play, look for the relevant CotW posts in this thread: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...ntents-397190/

Here are some more stats...

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/684/stats2dm.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/443/stats3.png/

On the flop I'd like to think that I bet when I have a hand and fold when I don't. When should I be c-betting on the flop? this is something I'm not sure about so I just mix it up sometimes.

How does AF work? I know what it stands for but I'm not actually sure how its calculated and if/why its important.

AND YES, looking at my graph is such an annoying and bad habit because I'm constantly checking it after every bigish pot!! I can't stop myself, I just do it straight after I win/lose to see what its looking like. This could actually have been a reason for why I haven't been able to break the $120 mark. Just seems whenever I reached there/or close to that point, I would start going down.

Off topic - Do you play uNL or are you a pro? You seem to have wayy too much knowledge to still be playing uNL. Really though, thanks for your help, looking through this thread you've helped a lot of people. Great guy!!

Your other stats are pretty standard, and this is a pretty small sample size anyway.
Mixing it up for the sake of mixing it up is not a +EV strategy. You need to have a plan. Good reasons for c-betting include being heads up, villain folds to c-bets often, the flop hits your range, but not villain's (i.e. if you opened in EP, then Axx and Kxx are good, T96 not so much).
See this posts for more on c-betting: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...etting-447771/

It's basically a ratio: The amount of post-flop bets and raises compared with the amount of calls. Calling stations have low AF, aggro players and fit-or-folders have high AF. Something like 2.5-4.0 is ideal (ideally you want to be making about 3 times as many bets/raises as calls), depending on how passive/aggressive your opponents are. I have the AF number on my HUD as a reminder of who to valuebet (the stations with AF of 1.2) and who to call down against (the aggro bluffers, with AF of 4+).
I'm a nanostakes recreational player. I'm pretty good at the theoretical side of poker, and enjoy post-game analysis and number-crunching, but I'm not spectacularly good at putting the knowledge into practice. To be honest, I find poker at "meaningful stakes" to be too stressful/aggressive for me, so I just donk around at the lowest stakes. I like helping others with bigger ambitions than me though and it's great when I hear someone I helped has moved up. Good luck at the tables!

Hi guys,
I'm finally going to get a screenshot of some of my stats (6max 5nl) and was wondering witch stats i need to show up? obvious ones like vpip,pfr and 3bpf Ive got, But wanted to know what else might be of interest or show some leaks i may have.Also witch filters are the best to show in the thread to get a better understanding of my stats with position being the obvious one.

Ive played a tad over 25k hands and thought it was about time to get some feedback.Also is it necessary to put one's win rate in with the stats or can that stat be left out for privacy?

Thanks guys,Grem

Positional stats for pre-flop and post-flop. You can remove or obscure the winrate column if you like. You don't need to run any filters immediately. I might suggest some if there is a problem somewhere.

If you have HEM1, then use the "Position" or "Leakbuster-Position" report, so you get something like this:

If you have HEM2, find a report that looks like:

If you have PT, you want the report that looks like this:


If the following stats are not included in the report, please manually add them: Flop c-bet, Turn c-bet, Fold to flop c-bet, River Call efficiency.

Thanks for the reply Arty,Here are my stats with the things you wanted adding but I'm still unsure of how to get pre and post flop into the report?? I'm using pt4 could you give me an idea of how to do this please?

Let the flaming commence. [IMG][/IMG]

You've got all I need there (pre-flop VPIP/PFR/3-bet, post-flop c-bet, AF, WTSD etc), except you haven't got the overall averages listed at the bottom of the column, so I'm just estimating the averages.

Let's see now.
The gap between VPIP and PFR is too great, especially in the blinds, which is a very common leak. You're calling (instead of raising or folding) too often before the flop. You'd be better off with numbers like 22/18 or 19/15. But what is the cause of this gap? If you're ever open-limping, stop it completely. Either fold those small pairs and suited connectors/aces, or raise with them. Occasionally, over-limping can work out OK, or cold calling with an SC if there are already two players in the hand, but if you're first into the pot, do it with a standard raise. If you're in the SB, you'll be in the worst position post-flop, so regain the initiative by 3-betting pre, or just make a disciplined laydown.

It's impossible to tell which hands you are cold calling with at the moment, but if you run a filter like "cold call pre" and can pull up a list of holecards, you can see which hands are profitable when you do this action. e.g. If you've cold called with dominated hands like KJ or AQ and they're losing, stop cold-calling those hands. If it's suited connectors, limit your calls with those hands. (Suited connectors are especially difficult for beginners to make money with. If you're not making solid profits with hands like QJs-76s, then fold pre with the smaller ones, until you've boned up on semi-bluffing).

3bet % is fine.
AF is fine, and should increase to a better number if you follow the next bit of advice.

C-betting is on the low side. Since you're playing 6max, you'll be playing more heads up pots than a full ring player (multiway pots are more common in FR). You'll therefore have a few more good c-betting opportunities. If you bet 60% of pot on every single flop, you only need villain to fold 37.5% of the time for you to show an instant profit. Now I'm not recommending you go out and bet every flop, but you can definitely increase your c-betting frequency to something like 65%. Find the CotW posts on c-betting for advice on the type of flops that are good to bet.
C-bet turn is solid.
Fold to c-bet is ok too, although you don't want to be calling/floating much more often than currently, unless you have good reads or implied odds when you're drawing.

River call efficiency is quite high, and I think you're losing value by not raising sometimes, as your calls are so often good. I say this because your W$SD is well above 50%, while your WTSD is over 30%. Normally a player with a WTSD of above 30% is a calling station, and has the worst hand at showdown the majority of the time. You're often calling with the best hand, which means you should be raising (if you improved on the turn, then raise there, so you can get your stack in on the river). This is a really tricky leak to fix. All you can do is check the hand histories. Filter for "won hand at showdown" and go over them. Look at hands where you merely called on the river. If you made two pair+, you should often be raising, especially if you put villain on TPTK. (Often when you make two pair, you'll be worried about a straight, but a villain is rarely betting 3 streets with a draw. He usually has TPTK or overpair.)
When you start raising turns and rivers, two things will happen. Villain will fold more often, so your WTSD number goes down to a more respectable 28-29%, and you'll be winning more money when villain calls with the worst hand.

So, overall, you need to be betting and raising more often. If you take the initiative pre-flop, bet a few more flops, and don't station it up too much post-flop, you should see your results improve somewhat. Good luck!

Brilliant,Thanks a lot for you're in depth response it means a lot when someone like yourself takes there own personal time to help others out in the BQ forum.I had a good read through the stats thread before posting my own stats and see that you do it on a regular basis so again thank you.

I will make sure i take all the advice you have given me to try and improve my stats and more importantly my winrate,could i ask when i make the adjustments you speak of when should i check my stats again to see the change?another 10-20k hands?

Sure.
I can't guarantee that I'll be around, but Mr Beer sometimes drops into this thread too.

Much appreciated thank you sir : )

Hey BQ,

Finally got my first 50k of serious poker done at 4NL. I think this is about 3 weeks of work 6 tabling 6-max NLHE. I have a profit of $6 and some change according to PT4. I don't want to break even forever but the fact that I am BE means I made some progress and I am quite proud of that. Now I have to try and plug leaks and get me into the winning zone. Could you have a look at my stats and see if you can find any problems?

Just some background on my play. Some sessions my redline carries my winnings and some my blue line does, very inconsistent. Somethings I have fixed recently include reduceing my calling 3-bets and turned down my cbetting % in the last 20k hands or so. I think I used to run like a 90% cbet flop and was barreling turns too much too. I also fear that I am a pay off wizard and that is probably one of my bigger leaks.

Here is my beautiful graph just for eye candy sake:



Here are my stats. I am very concerned about my MP play as I can see that it isn't following the pattern of money success. My EP>MP? I was thinking I should just play my MP like my EP and I would make some improvement..?





Thank you for taking a look at my stats and helping me improve my play.

BTW I'm running so above EV it isn't even funny but when I was under EV I was profiting. The concept of EV is so overrated because I don't feel any luckier even though I am 10+ BI above EV lol

On the second chart (the bottom one) I made a mistake and mixed the SB label and the BB label up. The positions are in the same order as the top chart.

Well, you've run about $60 above EV for the last 12,000 hands, which is a ridiculous amount. Surely you noticed you were getting your money in bad and sucked out a few times? :/
Anyway, on to the stats you actually have some control over...

Overall VPIP/PFR is pretty good at 27/23, although a little looser than many of the best players. Positional awareness is good, although you can probably open a little wider in MP. You don't have to play almost as tight as UTG.
3-bet is OK, although you might be 3-betting UTG opens too often. If you're currently 3-betting with AK/AQ in MP, stop. Just call. UTG's range is very strong.
Your c-bet frequency is OK now. 90% was way too high. The sweet spot is usually between 65 and 70%.
WTSD is above 30%, so you're definitely seeing too many showdowns. You've got to fold on the river more often, especially if villain raised. Don't get attached to one pair hands.
Ah, it's on the next page of stats that the problem is revealed. You're only folding to flop c-bets about 39% of the time. This is too low.
I often find players that c-bet a lot also don't fold to c-bets very often. Since they know that they never have anything when they c-bet, they presume a villain has nothing when he c-bets. It's not always true. Someone with a lower c-bet (e.g. 55%) usually has a pair or a strong draw, so you should give him more credit.
While villains certainly don't have you beat all the time when they c-bet, you should only really be calling on the flop if you have some equity (a pair or draw) and a plan for future streets. If you just have overcards that whiffed, just fold. You're throwing money away by peeling off a card in the hope you'll make top pair on the turn. If you have a flush draw or an OESD, try raising as a semi-bluff sometimes, especially if you think villain missed the flop. You won't make money in the long run if you just call down hoping to hit a flush or straight, as villains will rarely pay you off on the few occasions when you actually hit the draw.

Overall, I think you need to fold a bit more often, both pre- and post-flop. Fold to more c-bets, donks and - especially - raises when you only have a marginal hand. Villain's aren't bluffing half as often as you think. If he check-raises the turn, get out of the way. TPTK is no good. Fold to river raises too, and you should find you quickly stop losing money and that you'll be winning at showdown the majority of the time.

Although it's a boring way to play, weak-tight is profitable. Your redline will go downwards, but your blue and green lines should go upwards consistently. Try playing a few sessions in which you fold to every post-flop raise (unless you have 2 pr+). Don't be a pay off wizard. If a villain shows aggression, let him have the pot, as he probably has better hand than you.

Thanks arty, really appreciate the analysis. Looking at your analysis I really went back and looked at some of my HHs. I do need to FOLD more. I think I have a slightly high WTSD because I bluff for stacks to often. I rarely call with my draws I usually ship it/get commited on turn ship it... Good read, I don't like folding flops seems like too. With stuff like a gutty IP I would raise villains donk bet or something, idk looking back at it pretty silly stuff. I also think my river play is bad as I try to value bet "too thin" and get raised and still call, those are the worst ones. 39% fold to cbet? if I saw that on a player I would be trying to sit to the left of that guy... oh wait maybe that's why my tables fill up so fast... haha Ok, done with my little rant I am going to tweak my game a little and see how it goes.

Cliffs for self:
-Fold to cbet, don't peel so light
-Overall fold more to aggression without the goods
-Pay attention to river bets, don't be a pay of wizard.
-I think I fixed my cbet problem for the most part but I will keep an eye on that and try to be more value oriented.
-No marrying my AA or KK on 8910 7 J board

Thanks again arty, I will try and get my breakeven game up to winning in the next 50k or so. Good thing I got the checkup at 4NL and didn't leak like this at 10NL. Back to the grind!

Excellent. It's always good to hear when someone actually confirms the problems I suspected. Good luck in reducing these leaks!

Kay, i realise i need to put in moar volume but i was looking at positional stats and had a bit of an "oh god" moment looking at my results from the button....



AHHHHHHHHHHGHHHHH!

It's pretty obvious that variance accounts for a chunk of your results over this small sample size (you're winning money in the SB FFS!), so you might not have any huge leaks. (Actually, I had similar results when I started on Party. The blinds were my best seats and the button the worst for about 3000 hands).

Having said that, your 3-bet on the button is quite high, but your c-bet is low.
Firstly, you should look at the hand histories of the pots you lost on the button. Were you 3-betting versus UTG and bloating the pot with a worse hand? Try calling more often. You have position, after all.
If you just kept having terribad flops, then the low c-bet is understandable, but if you're getting heads up and it's checked to you in position, you should be betting about 65-70% of flops, as villains will be check-folding about half the time.

I don't want to comment on other stats (they all look fairly reasonable anyway) until you've got a larger sample size, so they can be "trusted" as it were.

Ok, here is the deal. I I do not know whether I was lucky at the beginning or am I on a downswing. So, I started looking through my stats but I do not really know where loss is almost inevitable (like opening in the blinds) and where not.

Here is my recent graph (up to 4000 hands its 6-max, then I switched to FR so even though it shows I am +$7, I am actually -$20.



My basic stats:



My positional stats:


Now these things are quite new for me so even though I can see that for example, i am largely losing with TPNK no draws, I do not know whether it is standard or not.

Thanks for taking a look Arty