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02-15-2015 , 08:30 PM
The more I play the more I realize I really have no idea what I'm doing sometimes

Bovada NL 10.

Hero:UTG+3 KA $11.65
UTG+4: $16.02

Hero: bets to $.45
UTG+4 Raises to $1.48
UTG+5 Calls $1.48
UTG calls $1.48
Hero: calls $1.48

Flop: QA8

Hero: bets 1.68
UTG+4 raises: 3.36
UTG+5: folds
UTG: folds
Hero: calls $3.36
Turn: 5
Hero: checks
UTG+4: All in 11.18(hero only has 6.81 left to call) more.
Hero:?


Given what happened here, should I even continue with AK to see a flop if someone re raises me that much?

Second, should I have made my bet sizes different?

Third, given that 2 other people besides me called in font of me, of course it gives me better pot odds to call but does it also suggest that my AK may indeed be dominated and even if I hit an A may be behind?

Fourth, given the min raise when I showed aggression should I just assume that he probably hit a set or 2 pair? It seems like I had the pot odds to call his flop raise (maybe not) and see if my hand improved or villain changed his behavior which he did not and my hand did not improve. Did I play this right?

Fifth, Should I have called his shove given that the pot was $12.97 and I had $6.81 left behind?

Last edited by jack4you; 02-15-2015 at 08:51 PM.
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02-15-2015 , 08:41 PM
totally should have shoved preflop instead of calling.
no reason youd want to see a flop with that many people, and it gave you a great situation to squeeze all of those limpers.

you obviously crush the limpers range, i'd be looking at UTG-4's PFR/3bet/4bet stats, is he a total nit, is he loose with his 3bets? u prob crush him too
nothing wrong with having AKo in your pf-shove range even if he only commits with QQ+ / AK, esp when all those other guys limp in that dead money, odds are they'd all fold to your shove and youd scoop like 6$ preflop
as played easy fold to flop raise IMO.

willingly allowing 3 other people to see the flop with you when youre holding AKo is indicative of some decision making problems regarding how premium hands should be played. Not to be too critical. Hell, i'd prob shove all in here with A2s if UTG-4 3bet wide enough

Last edited by LordPallidan12; 02-15-2015 at 08:50 PM.
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02-15-2015 , 08:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
totally should have shoved preflop instead of calling.
no reason youd want to see a flop with that many people, and it gave you a great situation to squeeze all of those limpers.

you obviously crush the limpers range, i'd be looking at UTG-4's PFR/3bet/4bet stats, is he a total nit, is he loose with his 3bets? u prob crush him too
nothing wrong with having AKo in your pf-shove range even if he only commits with QQ+ / AK, esp when all those other guys limp in that dead money, odds are they'd all fold to your shove and youd scoop like 6$ preflop
as played easy fold to flop raise IMO.

willingly allowing 3 other people to see the flop with you when youre holding AKo is indicative of some decision making problems regarding how premium hands should be played. Not to be too critical. Hell, i'd prob shove all in here with A2s if UTG-4 3bet wide enough
Assume basically a vacuum, this is Bovada where you can't keep stats on other players.

I actually know how to play premium hands, at least for QQ+ but with AK it is still a drawing hand. AK is actually behind any pocket pair (which I'm sure you know) and I guess if you figure you have some fold equity by shoving with it maybe it would be worth it. Then again, it seems to be that anyone that has QQ+ is going to insta-call you and with that many players in the hand calling 1.40, I would be surprised if there wasn't 1 player there with QQ+.

Last edited by jack4you; 02-15-2015 at 09:09 PM.
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02-15-2015 , 09:05 PM
still doesn't change anything.
the last thing you want with AKo is 4 people seeing the flop, which you allow to happen by calling. So your choices are either fold or shove at that point PF.
at least AKs/ pp has some implied odds due to flushes/top set. AKo is gonna be Top pair, which doesnt play well multiway

Besides, we know the limpers dont have that great of a hand, so all we have to worry about is the original 3bettor. I dont think getting it all in PF with AKo vs a random player pool is ever a -EV decision in the long run.
Factor in the extra incentive from the limped in $ its an easy shove to me
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02-15-2015 , 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordPallidan12
still doesn't change anything.
the last thing you want with AKo is 4 people seeing the flop, which you allow to happen by calling. So your choices are either fold or shove at that point PF.
at least AKs/ pp has some implied odds due to flushes/top set. AKo is gonna be Top pair, which doesnt play well multiway

Besides, we know the limpers dont have that great of a hand, so all we have to worry about is the original 3bettor. I dont think getting it all in PF with AKo vs a random player pool is ever a -EV decision in the long run.
Factor in the extra incentive from the limped in $ its an easy shove to me
Well, it certainly would make decisions easier if I were to put AK in my shove range.

When you play AK, do you pretty much shove with it when you get it or do you raise a bit and then if re raised shove? Do you mostly play tournaments or cash games?
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02-15-2015 , 10:42 PM
Cash. I dont always shove it, but I certainly try to get heads up with it. With all of those limpers ur choice is shove or fold. if ur in position vs one person whos tight flatting can b okay but using it as a 5bet bluff is fine. Vs someone who will go in with aq from blinds its an easy shove. The tighter they are the more ak becomes a bluff hand, if they go in with aq tt etc its going in for value, so its opponent based. Vs a random player pool its prob moderately +ev due to plenty of tards going in with kq etc. In this particular hand u have great fold equity in a big pot, and if ur called itll either b a coin toss or ull b a slight underdog based upon how tight his range is. id rather shove with ak than call an allin with it vs most villains
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02-16-2015 , 05:47 AM
I don't understand the hand history. Positions do not add up to a sensible hand.
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02-16-2015 , 05:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jack4you
AK it is still a drawing hand.
rofl get with the times
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02-16-2015 , 08:34 AM
Kings is a drawing hand when it is up against AA also. It doesn't mean it doesn't have awesome equity against a lot, the same goes for AK. You are however correct that AK needs to hit in order to realize its equity, that's why you have even more reasons to just ship this preflop, get some folds or get there when called.
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