Let me basically lay out my situation right now. I'm 17, won't be 18 until September. I obviously don't want to play illegally, so it will be more than half a year before I start playing. Am I an idiot for looking into this stuff now?

I want honest advice, so I'll be really honest here: I consider myself to be very intelligent, and think that if I put enough time in, I could become a winning poker player. However, reading the basic poker books and all the good threads I can find on this site seem like they're only giving me some basic guidelines. It's really hard to figure out what works for me and what doesn't when I can't try anything. And don't tell me to go to play money; unless I'm way off in my guess of what kind of play I will encounter at the micros, there's literally nothing to be gained by playing play money.

My plan at this point is to learn all I can up until my 18th birthday, then deposit $40 or so and grind the micros until I build up some sort of decent bankroll, figuring out what to do from there. I'd have around 7-8 months before summer break, by which point I would want to be in full swing so poker could act as a sort of summer job for me.

So I really have two questions here:

1. Am I starting my reading too early? I mean, how much is there that you can really learn before you need to get some experience to advance? If this is a good time to start, what should I be doing in the meantime to keep myself motivated? Lots of work with no quantifiable results is hell to a work allergic, impatient 17 year old.

2. Is it a realistic goal to be earning ~$10 an hour going into summer if I keep at the schedule I described above? If I can make anything reasonably above minimum wage, it would definitely be worthwhile, especially as I don't think I would have to worry about taxes.

So any advice from you guys with all the experience in the world would be truly appreciated. And don't encourage me if I'm being an idiot, just let me know... I'd rather hear that than "go for it", only to find myself having wasted months of free time, and lots of the little money I have (maybe $400, with no income) on poker books and the like.

Thanks

I don't think you are an idiot but I think you should devote a significant amount of your time into obtaining marketable job skills either through education or having an actual job. There's nothing wrong with studying poker, playing it, building up a bankroll, and doing well at it, but you have to keep the whole thing in perspective.

Play play money, as you get higher the play isn't too much worse than microstakes, and you won't be making $10 per hour within a few months lol. Most printed books aren't very good and won't get you very far, it doesn't matter if you are slightly more knowledgeable than the average donk, you have to be so much better than the other players that you can make enough off of them so that you can beat the rake.

Haha man, don't worry about that. This is of course second to my "normal" education. I'm well on track to go to the college I want to, and I'm not dumb enough to think that I'm going to be the next Joe Cada at 18 or something. I'm just talking about something fun to do with my free time, and a decent way to make some money. I've applied for all kinds of jobs, with no replies, so I'm looking for another way to make some money, and was wondering if this was realistic at all. I also really enjoy playing poker, and it's not like I'm planning on depending on this money at all, this is purely for fun and disposable income.

i think its a good idea to read as much as posible. look for deals, used books have the same info as new, and there are some free e-poker books look for ryan fees. post #84 in this thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...67/index6.html also you can ghost players and watch them play and see how the tactics work, or if you are sweating an idiot how they dont work. but i would go through this site as poker changes with the time and some of the older books are dated. but this site is on cutting edge as players are playing daily and chiming in with the info that works and complaining about what doesnt. + a lot of books are aimed at higher stakes than micro or even small stakes and will not get the results they would at higher stakes. i dont think you can make $10 hr unless you will be playing 25nl or higher multi tabling. poker is real hard and i would get at least a part time job so you will not have to withdraw and can climb the stakes faster.

Well once again this will be a hobby, and disposable income. I make about $40 a week mowing lawns during the summer, which is enough for me to hang out with friends and what not. I guess $10 was a bad number to throw out there, I guess I got a bit jaded reading threads like nate's $5-1000 in a week classic.

Right now I'm reading (and taking notes on) Phil Gordon's Little Green Book, but it's still hard to drudge through something as simple as that when I can't put any of it to practice. I also have Alex Hankin's "Definitive Guide to Poker" on the way from the UK based on a few recommendations (picked it up for a cool $3.19 :P), and have about $30 in Barnes and Noble gift cards, so after I get through those two I'll start looking at other books.

Thanks so far. Not to be ungrateful, but keeping with the theme of honesty here, nothing you guys are saying really stands out from the other stuff I've heard, although I'm not entirely sure what sort of responses I was expecting. The tip about ghosting someone does seem pretty useful though, thanks.

yea down load skype and team veiwer and send me a im, through skype. i am in 3 diff study groups i can make you a contact. then you just type in you situation and there would be guys that you could watch play from 2nl to 200nl fullring to heads up. skype name:syracuse-44 i sweat/ghost all the time that way i can see the limit im about to go to and get comfortable or just diff ways to play.

Honest advice: Play some play money or play some freeroll tournaments and try making a few pennies to start.


You're not going to be able to apply anything you're read in a book if you're not playing, and you're not going to truly understand much at all without actually playing, even if it's terrible play money. If you can't beat the play money idiots, you're not going to beat people that are actually trying to take your money. Start getting some hands under your belt now.


One thing I liked to do when I was bored during my last job was that I played a fake 10 handed table on a large table while I was waiting for work to be done. I'd use a deck of cards, a quarter for the button (you can use whatever), and I wouldn't do this with any chips. Then I'd assign a type of player to each "chair". Seat 1 would be loose-aggressive, seat 2 would be a tight-passive, etc. I'd deal out the cards and try to play the hand the way that each seat would play. Of course, I would know what everyone has during the hand, but I would try as hard as I could to be honest with how the players would play the hands, and it got me used to seeing different situations and how different players reacted to certain things. Once I got REALLY bored, I'd play 9 player sit-n-go's keeping track of peoples chip counts. It's probably the one thing that helped me advance as much as I did (I'm still not that great) because I really didn't have that much time to play online, and I definitely didn't have enough money to go play live all the time.



Hope something here helps. I know I'm rambling =P

Few things/responses to some comments in this thread

1) Reading books (articles) on any subject to learn about said subject is not a waste of time. People who are staunch opponents of reading are people who don't read.

2) You can definitely learn the very 'basics' from play money and free internet poker games, but the real education doesn't start until you actually play with real money

3) Why don't you just have your mom open up a poker account for you and grind out micros under her account, then when you turn 18, open your own account and transfer some monies there. You don't have to worry about an FBI team raiding your house in an undercover sting operation come September.

4) Plan on playing for 6 - 18 months before you become consistently profitable. The learning curve with poker has many components and skill is just one of them. There is a psychology to being a consistent winner and this is probably the hardest aspect of poker that 80% of players cannot grasp.

5) I find that a large percentage of talented poker players seem to be talented in many other games as well, so learning and playing other games (chess, spades, go, hearts, etc.) will help flex that part of the brain which in turn (indirectly) makes you a better poker player.

6) Brush up on your math skills. Statistics and algebra as relates to poker. Having this understanding will be key when you are reading many of the posts on this site as players will on occassion make their points using math. Having a conceptual understanding of EV, pot odds, implied odds, etc. is crucial in becoming a winning poker player.

7) Mentally prepare yourself for hard work and disappointment. The mental swings in poker are more severe than most things you will experience. Sure, you have your WSOP fantasies but realize and prepare yourself bad beats, downswings, and doomswitches. They are inevitable.

good luck

See if you have a knack for Heads Up games... You can start now with play money at Pokerstars, once you get to the 50,000 buy in range you'll face some decent opponents and if you make it to the 200,000 range you'll face the kind of good players you'd find at the micros and low limits. Once you turn 18 you might even be able to off the millions of play chips you made to start a small bankroll (though not a lot of people are buying these days).

I've seen people build up bankrolls pretty quickly with good runs in NLHE and O8 heads up.

Nice post dgi although I don't agree with point 3. Just wait till you are 18 and do everything legit.

OP - when you first start make sure you do so at Stars. Don't use any silly avatars or screen names because you will regret it later and you won't be able to change things. Use some obscure screen name that means nothing (do not go for something that will embarrass you later like "giveme69").

Before you join any other site do a little research (ask here) and take advantage of maximum 1st deposit bonuses and ALWAYS ensure you sign up through a good affiliate (e.g. raketherake or rakereduction) and take the rakeback option. You only get one chance at this so never open an account at any site without first doing your homework (Stars is the exception - although even there you want to take advantage of any initial goodies you can get). The Affiliates/Rakeback and Bonuses forums are best source of information.

Oh yeah, keep looking for a job.

you are an idiot if you think poker will be more profitable than any other job you can get right out of the gates. That said, it can be a very fun and profitable hobby.

now, if you want to play, i bet you can turn your starting roll into a decent roll in a few years and then you might have the skillz to grind out $10 per hour. Grinding, btw, is really tedious and real jobs are usually more fun.

+1

Can't you create an account under your name and start playing some freerolls so you can play the micros without deposit ?

You should play while studying, no matter what the opponents are like. You can't possibly apply all the knowledge right from the first hand you play. There's way too many concepts and unlimited amount of different situations.

+2

On the point of play money games. They may be terrible but they are still a place for you to learn and everyone has to start some where. This is your only play ground until you turn of age. So make use of it, every bit helps.

Also go into this for the fun of it, not to make money otherwise you might end up disappointed

Because a bunch of idiotic grown up jerks decided so? Rules are for idiots who need guidance, else they could be led astray.
These rules are everywhere, take car traffic for example... sometimes there are signs that help people 'organize' in cities so chaos is prevented.. that's reasonable. Sometimes there are speed limit signs, because most of the people are idiots and would never thought of the fact that the street they're on is not made for the higher limit than what the sign says if it wouldn't be there. Some people, know this naturally... I don't need stop signs and speed limit signs when riding a bike... cuz every xroad is naturally dangerous and it doesn't matter if you're coming on the main street or not. I'm careful all the time, never taking anything for granted. But idiot takes being on main street for granted then someone crashes into them and they die...

And why I wrote this? Because Imo from OPs post I can tell he's no idiot, he doesn't need rules just as most of the people do. Therefore, there's no reason to not agree with dgi said in his post, point 3. ;o

Yo man,
I think the best thing you could possibly do is be active in these forums more than reading poker books. For beginners poker books are great, but honestly, alot of them don't really apply too much to online. I know that it is hard since you never started playing, but from reading you should try to think about what kind of game you would be interested in. HU, 6max, SNG, full ring....etc....
If you can find a game and decide you really think you would like that, than from there I would lurk in that part of the forum alot and read the strategy posts. When someone posts a hand, read the hand, think about how you would play it, and then read what other posters say would be the right way.

If you decide to play HUsngs, which as mentioned before is a fast way to try to get a BR going, message me on skype (ben111390). If you can learn something fast I don't think it would be impossible to be making 10/hr by summer, provided that you can control tilt of course .

Best of luck OP

I started playing (play money) poker when I was 17, although I was absolutely terrible. I did the same as you plan to though, when I was 18 I deposited $50 and grinded micros until I had a decent BR. I messed around for the first few months, and was breakeven, then decided to get my act together and learn to play. I think it took me about 4 or 5 months to go from 2nl to making >$10/hr. I'm 19 at the end of February and I'm currently playing 25 and 50nl, without ever having deposited again after initial $50. GL OP, I think your goal is perfectly feasible.

Yeah. You know what, maybe he should just go rob a bank. He seems like he has his **** together and he is clearly above these "rules" the government/society has put in place. That'd be a lot faster than grinding 2NL.

Keep fightin' "The Man" TW, you'll show him someday!

Thanks for the advice. I'm off for the local Harris Bank branch, ski mask and shotty in tow.

Damn you ReidLockhart, another soul has been lost.

Take this for what its worth, but I would just start an account under your parents name or something. IMO it is not a big deal to start playing online before you are 18. I recently turned 18 but have been playing online since I was 15 with the consent of my parents. I'm not an uber degenerate now and am doing good in college. As already previously state, reading can only get you so far. You need the theory (the books, forums, etc) and a ton of play. I think with a little study and practice you can beat the micros fairly easily. However, you will not make much money. Also, to make any decent amount at poker you need to spend a lot of time playing and with cash games most of the time it is a long grind that can become fairly boring. Also, if you are going to play cash make sure to get rakeback.

I guess you need a lot of rules then. Are you really that dumb?

So everytime someone comes around with something that might seem controversial in comparsion to the ways and believes we're used to live by... You call them dumb?

Gambling might be legit since one reaches 18y... that's because it's an age people are expected to mature... and imo LOL, because it is not happening in now way. Some people don't mature even at their 30s. Some mature before they are 18yo, both physically and psychically... but that doesn't matter I guess. No wonder some people get addicted, destroy their lives and sink to the bottom after they get hooked up on poker or any other type of addictive 'drug', but it's legit, so it doesn't matter... and we get to employ people that will take care of those additcs... yaaay, more jobbbzzz for people.

Awesome system and its awe****ingsome rules. Cracks me up everyday.