I am not a beginner but I feel that this question would be answered well in this section.

Playing 1/2 at the local room. The guy next to me holds his cards in plain view, with a quick glance you can easily see his hole cards. So, the whole time he would be in a hand I would look at his hole cards. He did nothing to protect his hand.

So, as I am in a hand with him and another guy across the table (who has lost hundreds that day and is in a bad mood). It turns to the card-shower on my right and he flips his cards to look at and I do the same. I leaned in a hair to view his cards since they were in plain sight.

The guy across the way freaks out and says "He's looking at your cards". I say "He has them out, clear as day!". The guy starts calling me a cheater and that I was leaning in to look at his hand. Mind you, the man who revealed his cards never noticed me lean in to look at his hand.

Next hand, I bluff the idiot that called me a cheater and he showed his cards. I told him he had me beat and he grabs his chips and storms off the floor calling me a cheater.

So, what do you think? All but one person at the table said I was in no wrong doing what I did. Rule #2 on the poker room rules in this room is "You are responsible for protecting your own hand."

Thoughts?

I tell them once that their hand is exposed. Anything after that I'm (ab)using to full advantage.

Not sure if you can call it cheating but you do have an unfair advantage.

First time you notice you can see them, warn him to protect his cards. If you can still see them after that, you have carte blanche

This.

Players are responsible for protecting their own hands. I will warn an opponent once that I can see their cards. After that, I shut up and exploit.

You said you leaned over to see his cards. That's cheating.

In general I will warn once, I don't however go out of my way to try to see what they have.

The rules state you're responsible for the protection of your own hand. There is no rule in any room that i've been in that says looking at anything at the table in plain sight is illegal. A slight lean in any direction to look at anything on the table is not breaking the rules, at all. And by the way, the player never noticed me lean in; so it wasn't signficant. If someone is going to show their hand clear as day then it's as good as a tell and should be looked at.

On the same token, if I was negligent and showed my hand clear as day I wouldn't have the ego to tell anyone they did anything wrong by looking at my hand. If I was that dumb to show my hand carelessly, then I give anyone full permission to look and punish the hell out of me for it.

Stop justifying cheating. It's one thing to accidentally see the cards, you went out of your way to deliberately try to see his cards. That's cheating.

While playing at Bally's in Vegas the guy to my left, who I had found out just busted out of the main event, kept showing me his cards as he would fold if I was still in the hand. Not in an obvious way to everyone else but it was obvious to me. I personally like to beat players based on my skill, not by cheating and in my book this is cheating. I just made a point to not look at his hands when he was mucking. I think if somebody called you out on it and the casino could verify it, it would be considered collusion...don't get caught doing that or you will be banned.

Well, when the dealer agreed he should've protected his hand as well as th fooor stating that too then I think I am good.

How anyone could ever say it's cheating is beyond me. Does it look good? No. did I collude with another player? No.

why anyone would not capitalize on someone revealing their hand is astonishing.

Well, when the dealer agreed he should've protected his hand as well as th fooor stating that too then I think I am good.

How anyone could ever say it's cheating is beyond me. Does it look good? No. did I collude with another player? No.

why anyone would not capitalize on someone revealing their hand is astonishing.

There is a valid point about it being OK in a heads-up pot after you warned the other player. Without putting any extra effort into it, like leaning over.

In a multiway pot, it's clearly not OK because you put the third player at a disadvantage. Can't believe anyone at the table agreed with you.

If you have been caught leaning over to look at another players cards, the question should be between giving you a stern warning and kicking you out immediately. Can't believe none of the other players or the dealer called for the floor.

Certainly one should protect their hand. However, if someone is making a clear act that results in the cards being exposed, then like the others in this thread, I will provide them with a heads-up to let them know they are exposing their cards.

If they continue to show, then, yes, it is what it is. However, anyone who goes out of their usual seating position to view the cards deserves a KITN and perhaps SEVERAL of them.

Dealer said player should protect his hand (its a rule). He also called th floor over who said the same thing.

If anyone thinks I leaned directly over the person or even remotely close like that they are dead wrong. I lean more getting my wallet out of my pocket. My head was definitely turned towards the cards.

If you're that dumb to show your cards then you shouldn't play poker. If I did the same thing I think anyone next to me should use it to their full advantage and abuse the **** out of me

So, in order for you to see his cards, you had to glance down at them (this was noticed by the other player). You also made no effort to tell the player he was exposing his cards. This was cheating, absolutely. The house may have felt that it wasn't enforceable, but no player should ever trust your integrity. You have none. You cheated, and want to blame the other player for your cheating.

As others have said, once you lean over you're trying to cheat. No idea why you're going off on people for this. You said you were accused of leaning in to peek, and instead of denying it, you admitted that you had and argued about the degree. It is about intent. You didn't just look, you made an effort to see more. That's cheating. Maybe you didn't know, but it was.

Your rant on the victim of your cheating being dumb, that's just poor ethics. Yes, he may have failed in part of his responsibility. However, if you leaned in, it was part of his responsibility to prevent a cheat from damaging the game. You don't seem sorry. You seem entitled to it, just like every angle shooter. You feel that you're a good person? Your peers have told you that you (unknowingly? ) crossed a line. If you're a good person, you'll stop. Those of us who've played for years have seen the cheats and the anglers. All of them have excuses, just like you do here. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you're making it hard.

Basically, if you follow Denks advice, you're great.

One more thing, in case anyone thinks it, sitting lower in your chair to better see poorly protected cards is the same thing. Doing something extra to see hands, that's the problem. The minute you think "I could see those cards a little better if..." that's the line. Plenty of angle shooters will then mumble about something in a shoe or a bad back or whatever.

the real problem is that trying to hole card someone is too distracting. there are 9 people at the table you need to be watching, and you can never get it heads up with the dude even if you do see his cards anyway. or worse, you will think you see his cards and then misread them and end up paying him off. do the right thing, tell them they are flashing and just play poker.

I appreciate all the views on this. I spent a good deal of time researching the official rules on WSOP as well as looking through Robert's Rules of Poker and not once did it mention that a player cheating if notice a revealed hand.

Like I said twice, if I was an idiot enough to carelessly look at my hand where another player can view it easily then shame on me. If this was a cheating maneuver, why on earth would I ever want this done to me?

People are responsible for themselves in life. I realize society has turned to "everyone gets a trophy" and small time bullying puts the victim into a special room with a puppy for "healing". It sucks it has gone to the tables too.

Unless I see it in the official rules of poker or not he card room rule chart, it's not cheating.

A player farts in your face to distract you and grabs a leaf blower to expose your cards (note that he didn't touch your cards). Pretty sure the official rules of poker don't mention this is illegal so don't be mad if it happens to you.

Diecast747;
I'm sorry come to this forum looking for confirmation and didn't receive any. Try posting your original question in the BBV section. I'm sure you will find what you are looking for there.
Good Bye.

Will do...Vag.

You're comparing a glance to directly blowing player's cards off the table so you can view them. Classic comparison I'd expect from 2+2 user.

It is funny that you say this twice, because people have agreed, you seeing the cards revealed wasn't the issue. Again, a person with honor would at least once point out to the person that they weren't protecting their hand. Heck, even the guy at the table point it out -- you were leaning over to look.
Yes, you're a hard core old-school guy for saying this. I'm confused where a single reply to yours had anything to do with this. Oh, you're just saying stuff to try to win an argument? Let's make grandiose statements about society and see if people don't notice that you stole stuff off the counter?
Most angle shooters feel this way. Welcome to the ranks of the dishonorable. Again, it is funny you bring up the new-school everyone wins a trophy touchy/feely stuff -- the hard core "a man's word is his bond" school is what's calling you out. Anything you can do that isn't specifically out of bounds on the short "card room rules poster" is fine? Does it mention flat out stealing chips from someone else's stack and shorting the pot?
Then why did you come? You were looking for validation. A number of reasonable people explained that you were wrong. Now you're throwing the passive-aggressive "just what I'd expect from someone who posts here".

The next time you do it, you'll be knowingly a card cheat.

You're comparing going out of your way to see someones cards as not cheating. Classic cheater.

If someone deserves it doesn't mean you should put effort into doing it, however vulnerable they are. Everyone here agrees that they decide to flash cards and you happen to notice that's fine and on them, everybody also agrees that trying to see them is scummy. Do with this as you wish.

That was well said.

I think the best way to look at this is from another players perspective. Let's say for example you were playing poker and you obviously saw one player exposing his hand repeatedly to a player who was obviously looking at the cards. It also just so happens that you seem to be losing a lot of money to one or both of these players. What conclusion would you draw? Would you be okay that this was going on? At what point would you decide to call them out or just leave the table?

Back to reality tho

You must see how at least one player gains an advantage that nobody else has, how is that a fair game? Let's say for example that you get dealt AKs. You raise pre-flop and watch the guy next to you muck 10 2. Somebody calls your 3BB raise and the board comes out with A 10 10r. Would you be scared of somebody on the table having played pocket 10's...likely not because you just watched somebody muck a 10. So you check knowing you likely have the best hand and the caller bets into you for 1/2 the pot. You Hollywood it knowing your hand is likely the best and finally call. Turn is another 10. Now you are confident you have the best hand...how can the other player even try and bluff you since you knowingly have information that he doesn't have? Only thing that beats you here is AA which is statistically small odds of them having at this point. Now let's just pretend to be your opponent here. You actually have KQs and you happen to love chasing straights...but you also would love to represent A 10 in this situation to win on a bluff. How much are you going to bet to represent you have A 10? If you only answer one question, answer this last one?