I feel like such a nit... How many of you are folding here? I know this is LC but just say what you can to help.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $93.05
SB: $50.20
BB: $50.00
UTG: $55.10
CO: $52.80

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with Q Q
2 folds, Hero raises to $1.50, 1 fold, BB calls $1

Flop: ($3.25) J T 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.85, BB calls $2.85

Turn: ($8.95) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $5, Hero requests TIME, Hero folds

Final Pot: $8.95
BB wins $8.55
(Rake: $0.40)

I was unknown at the table but I had 50 hands on the villain and he was 12/12/1.

hmmm, think i raise to 15 and then grunch and fold to shove and hit my self in the head for raising when you coulda shoulda known he had it...

its fine, although call/reavaluate is far better.

edit; raise folding is really bad. I don't want to pay 15 to find out if I'm beat, I'd rather just pay 0 and suck it up, or 5 and make a decision on the river.

Yeah I think I should have called but I'm actually okay with my fold, nothing special.

Games are pretty much dead though.


Full Tilt Poker $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

CO: $150.75
BTN: $14.40
Hero (SB): $50.00
BB: $24.20
UTG: $55.20

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is SB with T A
3 folds, Hero raises to $2, BB raises to $3.50, Hero calls $1.50

Flop: ($7.00) 7 A 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks

Turn: ($7.00) T (2 players)
Hero bets $4.50, BB calls $4.50

River: ($16.00) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $12.50, BB raises to $16.20 all in, Hero calls $3.70

Final Pot: $48.40
Hero shows T A (two pair, Aces and Tens)
BB shows J J (a pair of Jacks)
Hero wins $46.00
(Rake: $2.40)

Hey guys, is buying hand histories from sites like PTR unethical as a consensus? I mean nobody would find out anyway, but I imagine it's most likely FROWNED UPON but if everyone's doing it I can see it being quite useful.

LOL I tank 4bet to 50bbs at 100~ effective AKo playing FR 100NL vs an 18/16 nit and he 5bet shoved, I cry snapcall, and he shows AQs.

This is what happens when you run at 44/28.

18/16 at fr is a nit? what

Its fistpumping when he shoves imo

My bad, his vpip is 16, not pfr... pretty sure, but forgot the pfr. He wasn't a "nit" per se, but he was a tight reg (aka nit), and he didn't tank before his shove at all, so I thought it must be QQ+ AK which I am not THAT bad against, but still a dog.

fwiw, I lost that hand, when Q flopped =(

Another hand:

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (BTN): $94.85
SB: $102.35
BB: $84.00
UTG: $23.35
UTG+1: $100.30
MP1: $55.95
MP2: $106.85
CO: $99.95

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BTN with K K
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5, SB calls $4.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $4

Flop: ($16.00) 2 5 2 (3 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $11, SB calls $11, MP1 folds

Turn: ($38.00) J (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

River: ($38.00) A (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Final Pot: $38.00
Hero shows K K (two pair, Kings and Deuces)
SB shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Deuces)
Hero wins $36.15
(Rake: $1.85)

Seriously, wtf. For a LAG, I am absolutely horrible at getting value...

NVM, got it.


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

BTN: $10.95
SB: $50.25
Hero (BB): $133.35
UTG: $10.75
UTG+1: $43.10
UTG+2: $37.90
MP1: $10.50
MP2: $15.05
CO: $52.25

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with T 8
5 folds, CO raises to $1.50, 1 fold, SB calls $1.25, Hero calls $1

Flop: ($4.50) 7 J 7 (3 players)
SB bets $2, Hero raises to $7, CO folds, SB calls $5

Turn: ($18.50) 9 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $15, SB calls $15

River: ($48.50) T (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $109.85 all in, SB calls $26.75 all in

Final Pot: $102.00
SB shows J A (two pair, Jacks and Sevens)
Hero shows T 8 (a straight, Seven to Jack)
Hero wins $99.00
(Rake: $3.00)

WTF @ turn check?

FR is fun, for everyone...


Poker Stars $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

SB: $50.00
BB: $50.75
Hero (UTG): $88.70
UTG+1: $66.95
MP1: $50.65
MP2: $62.15
CO: $66.80
BTN: $67.25

Pre Flop: ($0.75) Hero is UTG with T A
Hero raises to $2, 3 folds, CO calls $2, 3 folds

Flop: ($4.75) J 2 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, CO calls $3

Turn: ($10.75) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($10.75) 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $5, Hero calls $5

Final Pot: $20.75
Hero shows T A (a pair of Deuces - Ace kicker)
CO shows Q K (a pair of Deuces)
Hero wins $19.75
(Rake: $1.00)


Re: turn check

It's not a horrible turn check, maybe worse than a bet fold, but the majority of his range are either floats or hands that can't take barrels (66-TT), so checking for value is imo pretty solid if I think he stacks off QQ+ but may flat JJ and slow play AA, and have floats in his range.

Also if I bet turn, I think I must shove river with my image.

The bet-check-bet line is also not as clearly defined as a value line for my image as it would be for a tag reg.

edit: oops wrong hand.

not gunna cross post but if you wanna see a bit of australia from my perspective then check out an appropriately named thread in microstakeslimit

Okay, nvm, I just ran bad:

Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (SB): $225.30
BB: $115.10
UTG: $114.15
UTG+1: $103.75
MP1: $102.30
MP2: $31.15
CO: $112.70
BTN: $189.80

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is SB with J K
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, CO raises to $6, BTN calls $6, Hero calls $5.50, 3 folds

Flop: ($21.00) T 2 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $11, BTN folds, Hero calls $11

Turn: ($43.00) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $21, Hero calls $21

River: ($85.00) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Final Pot: $85.00
Hero shows J K (high card King)
CO shows 5 4 (a pair of Fives)
CO wins $82.00
(Rake: $3.00)


Poker Stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (CO): $186.30
BTN: $113.60
SB: $113.15
BB: $146.60
UTG: $102.75
UTG+1: $102.30
UTG+2: $32.50
MP1: $156.70
MP2: $183.80

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with A A
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $1, MP1 raises to $6, 1 fold, Hero raises to $18, 2 folds, BB raises to $146.60 all in, 2 folds, Hero calls $128.60

Flop: ($300.70) 2 K 8 (2 players - 1 is all in)

Turn: ($300.70) 7 (2 players - 1 is all in)

River: ($300.70) J (2 players - 1 is all in)

Final Pot: $300.70
Hero mucks A A
BB shows K K (three of a kind, Kings)
BB wins $297.70
(Rake: $3.00)

Okay, to be fair, I should've shoved turn w/ first hand.

Imma stop before I lose all my manies, I shall check ozi's TR out instead.

why aren't you c/r'ing the flop in the first hand?

I thought his range there is really strong. Too much reliance on hud stats I guess. It's partially because the other players were stationy, and he's a reg, so he's not bluffing much. I also thought he rarely double barrels (clearly wrong) and as such I could float OOP/peel cheap. I also thought he only folds air vs me due to my image. When I bluff there I want to have more FE than that as otherwise a float or even c/c turn lead would be good (could've done that and bet/3bet the turn).

Also I'd hate to stack off on this flop with this action but I am not sure if I can raise/fold and be happy depending on how aggro I think he is... so yeah. idk.

too many tigers making threads imo

well, I clearly don't have his stats and you reasoning is fine, but:

If you want to just call because his range is so strong you also need to think you will be able to get the money in when you hit your flush.

If you think he is decent and BTN is a station his weak flop bet should be an indicator that he doesn't have much. Why would you only bet ½ pot vs. a station on a board like that? He'll call with so many hands on a board like that, and so many turn cards are going to be scary so you want to get the money in the pot while you can.

FWIW, I don't think stacking of there is ever bad. I mean the pot is already 32 bb and he has 95 bb behind. Even against the tightest range you are doing fine:

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

27,720 games 0.005 secs 5,544,000 games/sec

Board: Th 2s 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 64.416% 64.42% 00.00% 17856 0.00 { TT+, 66, 22, AsTs }
Hand 1: 35.584% 35.58% 00.00% 9864 0.00 { KsJs }

And clearly his range isn't that tight. My point is that he needs to fold so very few hands that c/r'ing and getting it in will pretty much always be +EV and I think it is rare that a flop call is going to be better. How do you play turn and river when you brick?

Also, from a range perspective, if you aren't c/r'ing this hand then what are you c/r'ing. I think in spots like these (blind vs late opener) you need to be c/r'ing a lot of flop with as little equity as a gutter and overcard, since his range really can't be that strong (in generel, not this particular villian).

It might be I'm to agressive for FR though.

lol,

you should get an avatar loop with different people being shot down.

most like not possible but would be awesome.

Well I think his calling or stacking off range is fairly strong, not overly so with his betting range. It is not that a raise is not profitable, it is just less profitable than it would be in another dynamic, and whilst it is still profitable, peeling, even OOP, is more profitable because I expect him to not barrel, not call down too light, and be straightforward over all, making my hand easy to play by keeping pot small. Vs a tricky player I think stacking off would make it a lot easier, but I think peeling to re-eval would be fine vs a player whom I thought would play transparently.

So in short, I think if I raise I have to stack off, and it'd be fine, I can't raise/fold, but 35% is not that great, tbh. When I think I have more EV calling and re-evaling, I don't think I have to stack off, even with my FE, when I have only 35% equity when stacking off because I feel like I can win the hand a vast majority of times in later streets either by hitting or stabbing and bluffing off ace high or mid pairs.

As for range balancing, I didn't think it was that important as I have no history aside from me having loose hud stats and him being more on the tight side, and idk if I need to bother with it FR. I am slightly on the autobotting side in terms of making reads. Most of my reads are on weird plays and vs donks, not on tight regs (obviously I marked this hand down for future reference).

I would've liked a shove on the turn because I have more equity vs KK AA and sets now, which imo is enough a part of his stack of range for it to be significant, whereas on the flop I only have flush outs, and also because my hand looks quite strong and I have FE vs overpairs and top pair type hands.

That's just my take on it, of course.

Ro do you play fr more than 6max? is it because you can play more tables or what other reasons?

i was thinking of going back to it for a while to try and build up some $ and vpps, but haven't played it in quite a while.

fyi if u notify mod we might be compelled to act....do you think TT would have owned bradpitt so hard if there wasnt a notifymod. hinthint.

gotcha. does it go to a mod that mods that forum?

i do use it for spam and stuff, just didn't occur for me to use it for really irritating questions and pointless threads. consider my eyes peeled

i'm going to read braddpitts thread again for a laugh. don't tell me how it ends.

edit: i loled again.

tbh i expect that
1. ice wil notify me everytime tiger surfaces
2. bann will notify me everytime slefmade surfaces
3. everyone else covers the rest

seriously, dont assume a mod reads every post in every thread. beginners has grown in size since the start of 2009 and theres alot of threads so if someone posts stupid crap like "pics of ur mum or gtfo" in a thread dont assume we will read it unless the title was attention grabbing like "heres pics of my milf mum" or it was started by user called "mumpicshere"

oh and supermods get every notifiaction for every forum because they are super and green mods get a notification for forums they mod. admins get everything as well. so notify away....u wont be banned for too many notifications unless its obvious u are doing it to fill a mods inbox.

I've played a lot of both, about 3:2 ratio 6max vs FR. My winrate at 25NL favors FR greatly over a very large sample, for some reason, partially because I ran bad, and because I played most my 25NL 6max early in my "career". Not much 50NL data to speak of for FR, and I did very well at 6max 50NL/PL. 100NL I just get murdered both ways.

IMO FR is fairly soft and easy to beat compared to 6max, and a lot less tense and players are less used to dealing with aggressive players, but otherwise the two games are essentially the same, except you can be looser FR than 6Max in the same situation with steals because you get so much more credit, and a lot of them are used to being nitty. You need to tighten up in a lot of spots too, but overall I am playing about 5% looser FR than 6Max... you end up limping a lot more too, on weak tables.

I think this might be a difference between 6-max and FR, as I would expect to be doubble barreled a fair amount on this board. Against an unknown I would still prefer a c/r but I don't hate a c/c re-eval turn line against straightforward players who don't barrel turn often. I'm not sure I agree that you are more +EV in that line, but I think it is close.

When you say you would like to stack off on turn, are you leading or crai'ing? I wouldn't like a lead that much, because you still only has about 35% against his range, where as a crai seems better with all the dead money in the pot. If he checks turn (not just the Q turn, but turn in generel) I'm assuming you are stabbing close to 100% on the river?

As for range balancing, it most likely isn't that important against multitabling FR Reg nits, but I think that people in generel needs to be much more agressive from the blinds.