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Knowing when to fold AA post flop Knowing when to fold AA post flop

10-21-2010 , 04:13 AM
I think one of my biggest leaks is not being able to fold AA preflop. Is the following hand a good example of when you should?

Villian is pretty lag 48/33/3/ over ~50 hands

NL Holdem $0.10(BB) Replayer
SB ($20.67)
BB ($4.57)
UTG ($13.28)
Hero ($10.05)
UTG+2 ($10)
MP1 ($3.50)
MP2 ($2.94)
CO ($9.14)
BTN ($13.29)

Dealt to Hero A A

fold, Hero raises to $0.30, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $1.10, fold, Hero raises to $4, SB calls $2.90

FLOP ($8.10) J T Q

SB bets $5.50,
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 04:17 AM
I really don't think you should fold there.
If he has AK, I don't see the reason he wouldn't 4-bet pf.
queens or jacks then your out of luck.
I mean, you still have outs to these hands.

your ahead AQ,KQ,KK and possibly 99.

theres like ~14 bucks at the pot and you only have 6 left, ez shove.

Last edited by MichaelChoi; 10-21-2010 at 04:23 AM.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 05:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CandyKreep
I think one of my biggest leaks is not being able to fold AA preflop.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelChoi
theres like ~14 bucks at the pot and you only have 6 left, ez shove.
Even vs JJ+, AK you have ~30% equity. I would shove here too. Only if you're 100% sure that he wouldnt bet KK here. Then it's a fold. But .... nah.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 06:05 AM
This is a very interesting situation and as you probably know it really depends on the 5-bet range that you give villain.
What makes it so interesting is that if you put him on QQ+ then you have 57% equity. But if you put him on JJ+ then you are slightly behind on 49%.
However, if you include AK+ in his range then your post-flop equity really drops off.
Given that he is in SB and you are holding two of the aces AK+ seems unlikely. Probably is QQ+ or even KK.
With QQ+ and your 57% equity you have the following:
(57% x 13.60) - (47% x 5.5) = 7.75 - 2.58 = +$5.17
(I think)
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Palikari
Yeah I meant to say not being able to fold AA postflop in the OP

oooops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tash
This is a very interesting situation and as you probably know it really depends on the 5-bet range that you give villain.
What makes it so interesting is that if you put him on QQ+ then you have 57% equity. But if you put him on JJ+ then you are slightly behind on 49%.
However, if you include AK+ in his range then your post-flop equity really drops off.
Given that he is in SB and you are holding two of the aces AK+ seems unlikely. Probably is QQ+ or even KK.
With QQ+ and your 57% equity you have the following:
(57% x 13.60) - (47% x 5.5) = 7.75 - 2.58 = +$5.17
(I think)
He was a total lag-fish. I could see him calling a 4-bet pre here with 99+, AQ+

I would see him as likely 5-bet shoving QQ+ pre.

Last edited by CandyKreep; 10-21-2010 at 06:59 PM.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 07:36 PM
i probably stack off here....you have almost half your stack in there w/outs.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-21-2010 , 08:37 PM
Grunch.

Ugh. You're getting something like 2.1:1 on your money so are you good here 32% of the time? I don't know, I can imagine different flatting ranges depending on how he plays.

Stove says you're 35% vs. QQ+,AK so it's a slight call. If you've caught him bluffing at pots I'd say it's a call.

But let me put this more succinctly; folding is probably about as EV as calling. So spending a lot of time stressing on your decision is -EV. =)
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-24-2010 , 06:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quux

But let me put this more succinctly; folding is probably about as EV as calling. So spending a lot of time stressing on your decision is -EV. =)
An interesting way of looking at it.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-24-2010 , 04:15 PM
FWIW, there is no board that I'm folding any hand after 4 betting a 100bb stack preflop.

Better example would be if sb flatted your pre, then donked the flop.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 04:30 PM
with 40% of your money in you go in with any flop.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelChoi
I really don't think you should fold there.
If he has AK, I don't see the reason he wouldn't 4-bet pf.
queens or jacks then your out of luck.
I mean, you still have outs to these hands.

your ahead AQ,KQ,KK and possibly 99.

theres like ~14 bucks at the pot and you only have 6 left, ez shove.
This does a good job of giving you every reason to call/shove.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 06:51 PM
If stacks were much deeper it would be easier to fold AA.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 07:18 PM
This seems like a move by a big stack bully as he has most of the other players covered 2 to 1. Easy shove 100% of the time imo.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 10:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray Zee
with 40% of your money in you go in with any flop.
Honestly, man, just because your name is a different color than everyone else's doesn't give you a right to contribute to these forums.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattW19
Honestly, man, just because your name is a different color than everyone else's doesn't give you a right to contribute to these forums.
leveling?

you realize this is ray zee, in an era where most live pros are jokes this guy is a still a legend
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-25-2010 , 11:24 PM
sorry, I was wrong to say that.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-26-2010 , 12:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by REALSam
This seems like a move by a big stack bully as he has most of the other players covered 2 to 1. Easy shove 100% of the time imo.
Not that it makes any difference in this example, but your answer seems to be mixing tournament considerations into a cash game where they probably don't apply.
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-26-2010 , 12:43 AM
wierd spot once he flat your 3bet, your beating nothing but a bluff tbh its pretty much the worse flop against someone with taggish stats, his stats shows hes loose but im sure hes not stupid and hence your behind here always its a insta muck, & yea if you cant fold kk/qq/aa/ak preflop or postflop vs certain people on certain boards its a big leak that brings down your winrate
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote
10-26-2010 , 01:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PecanGrower
Not that it makes any difference in this example, but your answer seems to be mixing tournament considerations into a cash game where they probably don't apply.
After further consideration, you are correct sir. In the process of switching from tournament to cash. Confused the two.

I bet your GREAT at reading hands
Knowing when to fold AA post flop Quote

      
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