I've been playing poker for about 6 months and started out as a winner in NL2 and eventually a winner in NL10 over a large sample, and even NL25 over a smaller sample.
But I recently switched to this european, super super fishy site, with really low rake. I figured this would be by far the best option if I wanted to be a proffessional this year.

So I've been putting about 6-7 hours a day this whole week, 5 tabling, but things just aren't going my way. Sure, I have tons of coolers etc, but I also feel like I get into tons of tricky situations, mostly OOP with f e. with hands like 99-JJ in a three way pot.

I want to make sure that you realize how soft these games are, about 80% of the players are 50vpip+ and super lose/passive and their betting is rly terrible. Still, I feel it's so much harder to beat than NL10 stars (where basically everyone is a bad nit and supereasy to abuse), when in reality these tables should be owned for atleast 10bb/100 I feel.

Yesterday I grinded 8 buyins in 4 hours, today I lost 7 BI in 2 hours. I know that this is poker, and I'm not really whining about variance here, but instead try to understand why I don't crush these fishes, cus it just can't be pure bad luck can it?

So games are 5handed and I just try to play superstandard and valuebet rly big and fold alot. My stats has been 22/19 over 20K hands, which I think is tight since I'm only up against 4 others.
On stars I played like 15/12 with rly wide button range, but the games were 9 handed.

Btw playing fullring is not an option cus you can just open 5 tables at once and crusing the 5handed would be waay more profitable.
Let me know if the thread is terrible ;x

TLDR: How do I crush losepassive fishes in 5 handed games?

Don't try to bluff players with such high VPIP statistics. Most of them will call if they have hit any part of the board. Instead, you should focus on valuebetting the hell out of them. Remember they play alot of hands, so you can value-bet alot lighter then you could do against tighter players.

I've been playing alot of poker. I obviously don't try to bluff these guys, ever, I also see no point in c-betting with air cus they call me down with any sort of draw, any middle pair, and ace high, so I find it hard to play like AJo when I don't hit it and theres like 20BBs in the pot.
Also I think I valuebet pretty good, and value-bet lighter I dunno if I agree with, I valuebet TPWK a lot of the time depending on the texture but not rly pocket 9s when its Q J 3 rainbow and multiway for example.

Is there any possibilty I can tighten up like even more just to reduce variance? Srsly I'm so lost and I might even be on a huge downswing but I kinda doubt that and feels really unproductive to say that aswell.

For a start, big pairs (AA, KK, QQ) = larger raises preflop (as large as they'll call) Forget all that standard advice about 3bb + 1 per limper etc. If they want to stick half their stack in with AJo, it's your duty to let them.

Also, dial back on the semibluffing. You'll often have next to no fold equity. Be patient, take all the free cards you can - these guys are usually very generous in that respect - hit your draw and let them pay you off with middle pair.

I've been barreling alot with strong draws when the pot is small, now when I read your post I thought "well, thats one adjustment I can make" but when I thought about it I think getting money into the pot might be better, with two overcards/flushdraw for example. Max buyin is 200bb btw so playing really deep more often than not

Tighten up and look to get massive value from your good hands postflop. Small rake = you can fold more preflop. Focus on getting paid with your few great hands instead of trying to play a lots very marginal ones.

This is a mindset I used on stars, and still using to some extent, I think I've got a tight, solid preflop, but maybe I should nit it up.

But would it be viable to play like.. say 17/14 or something which imo is super nitty 5-handed, vs 4 others with 30-60 vpip. Isn't it better to open A10o UTG, K9s CO, 45s btn (those are in the bottom of my range) given we are so deep and they're likely to pay us off when we hit.

You're probably right though since my postfl is apparently bad.

Thanks alot for replies

I dont think you can play the marginal hands like 2 broadway profitably against these people, they wont understand what you re doing with your fancy post flop play so stick to solid value. call with small pp's, flop sets and get paid off by top 2. make bigger raises pre because people will call 6bb or 7bb open raises out of position. treat them the same way you would treat 1/2 bricks and mortar players who have had a few beers.

If it's a soft/semi-passive game I'd be playing more speculative hands, especially 200bb deep. Get in cheap and valuetown the fish when they hit tptk vs your well concealed straight.

One key note to remember, you can't bluff bad players.

generally speaking value bet much thinner and tighten up your bluff ranges

preflop i think being very deep with a lot of limpers you can really open up in position and limp behind a lot as I assume they play very bad postflop and as others said raise your big pairs / big high card as large as they will call

also what site is it? sounds like a dream

I think that open-limping speculative hands like SCs and Axs can also be profitable in this environment. Especially 200bb deep, huuuge IO.

Also you should tighten up your islation range when it's very likely that players behind or in the blinds will call. Stuff like K8o or A9o aren't good hands for multiway pots.

Which site are you playing on, W2D?

Svenska Spel, a bossmedia site for swedish users only, and yes it's a dream, I just have to adjust to this superwierd style and crush face midstakes soon hopefully!

Also, what kind of range do you guys prefer in the blinds when people has limped before you (people openlimp more than openraise). For example, would you complete small blind with 77? KJo? or raise those?

OP, I play lower stakes than you so feel free to take this with a pinch of salt, but if you are used to playing nitty/TAG sort of players, you have probably learned to grind out an edge against them by picking spots to bet without neccessarily having the best hand, so c-betting, bluffing on scary boards, semi-bluffing with draws, 3-betting light and so on. None of these tactics are good against calling stations because they will simply call.

Just bet big with premium hands and see try see cheap flops with speculative hands in position. If you bet with AK and you miss, don't bet the flop or at least think twice before betting.

On the site you have described, I would be more inclined to call with 77 to set mine and raise with KJ to hit a pair and beat Mr Station to death with his K5s or J9o.

I play on a site like that and I try to play almost any 2 in position because I know I am very good at value betting. As for oop, I will just call with hands like pocker pairs and tighten up my range alot since its harder to get value

If you are having difficulties in really soft games you need to re-evaluate what you have learned thus far in your poker career. There isn't really any nice way of saying this but you probably have some fundamental issues with your game. It is difficult to say what those are without some stats or hand examples though.

When playing in these types of games (I have more experience than anyone in them by the way, not just blowing out of my ass here) it really is true that you all you need to do is play reasonably tight and solid. And by solid I don't mean a bunch of fancy play with marginal hands and bluffing up a storm. I mean, make your cbets and give up when they call for the most part. Value bet them relentlessly when you have something. It works believe me.

These are the kind of games you need to nit up more than you may think in EP. Also you should get a lot of chances IP to see some flops with draws since if I'm reading the game correctly you may make it to the turn without seeing a bet. This is a great environment to play suited connectors, suited aces, broadways, etc. as long as it remains passive. Harrington's chapter on "beating weak games" (Harrington Cash Vol 2) is a good read for these games.

I agree what most of you guys said and I guess I'll start to limp some of the hands I usually would've raise with, and tighten up my blindrange aswell. Hopefully I'm just running really bad so I'll grind it out.

Thanks for replies

mate, I have been getting it all in ahead for two days - over and over again and losing. 55/45 or 57/43 - but you know what? that means for every hundred times I do it, Ill lose 44 times on average - I come out ahead in the end, but its a lot of beats on the way. got to work on your mental game.

lol i think these supersoft games just have an unreal amount of variance. I play on a server thats pretty identical. examples: lots of open limping, lots of calling stations with any pair no matter the board texture, also most dont 3bet unless there maniacs or they have AA-JJ(even then they limp call a raise), as well as min 3bet with there entire range. They also call 3bets oop with any 2 and the majority will then play fit-or-fold postflop, pople try and ween you in by betting 1/4 pot 3 streets when they hold the nuts. I see massive swings in these games and have not seen tons of ups in the past month or so but all around ive done great. I think your opening hands you mention are fine 5handed(with 30-60% vpip they will call with way less). What network is this on btw, it sounds exactly like the one i play on except it doesnt allow tracking software so vpip is always a rough estimate.

hmmm that 2nd paragraph should basically destroy the variance for the most part. What do you do when card dead? Ive been isolating limpers lightly and 3betting lightly(i know that there both kinda errors in some sense, it works that i can just cbet and get a fold often enough, but adds a bad amount of variance in such fields which can lead to tilt), on top of that premiums have been losing largely as well and i do know how to fold decent hands when necessary. I have turned around and become a winning player since my first deposit which has been 6 months so i know im at least playing somewhat good. Again hudless for that network so cant provide any exact statistics. But i know ive played around 70k hands and have profitted about $200 give or take playing 5nl. So again i have to ask what do you do when card dead if your playing pretty TAGgish? thanks

Wait or multitable so you don't have to wait.

its speedpoker, multitabling is nearly impossible because of field sizes br and speed(5 handed rush style) but thanks, should i maybe play suited gap connectors, unsuited connectors when this happens, 2gappers (suited of course) if cheap or limped pot with 2 or more players in when i have positional advantage? Steal a little more then if not card dead? i have tried waiting on hands and really hate doing so, also even fish can usually tell if you arent playing hands ever if its at an extreme rate and the regs will clearly notice it and never give you a dime. I fold AQ to people who just wait on bigger hands if they raise from ep.

I wouldn't change your strategy just because you are bored waiting for cards. If it's a reasonably fast format it shouldn't take long to get playable hands.

you would think, good point though. It would cut the swings down quite a bit im sure. Then again i try not to go crazy with bad holdings but its just to fun when it works for a few sessions in a row as well as rewarding. I know people say dont bluff fish but sometimes it can work if you have history, Ex: you cbet a flop with ATC and both check the turn(you know fish raises tptk majority of the time on flop) board texture is A7933 2 to a flush, all draws missed and he checks the river, worthy barrel right? One easy read i had today was similar, i was playing this fish who i know barrels pot with air often, he did it on flop and turn, on a blank river he bets out 15%pot and my draw missed. How do you give up here really easily and not test with a raise? It worked btw and i told myself "if this is a bet to induce well then im sol and i will never do it to this guy again".