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was i right not to fire the river was i right not to fire the river

03-03-2010 , 12:15 PM
Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

MP: $10.00
CO: $8.80
BTN: $10.00
SB: $20.15
Hero (BB): $9.45
UTG: $2.70

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is BB with Q Q
UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.40, 1 fold, SB calls $0.35, Hero raises to $0.80, 1 fold, CO calls $0.40, SB calls $0.40

Flop: ($2.50) J 8 4 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.70, CO calls $1.70, SB calls $1.70

Turn: ($7.60) 5 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.40, CO calls $3.40, SB calls $3.40

River: ($17.80) 8 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO checks

Spoiler:
Final Pot: $17.80
CO mucks Ah Jh
SB shows Jd Ks (two pair, Jacks and Eights)
Hero shows Qh Qc (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Hero wins $16.95
(Rake: $0.85)




the reason why i didnt just shove on the river was that I couldnt think of any hands that would call those bets and not have me beat.

like sets that became houses or KK or AQ
even there was a gutshot out but i thought that was unlikely.


should I have fired the river?

Last edited by inthepub5; 03-03-2010 at 12:17 PM. Reason: just realised how poor preflop min bet was
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:16 PM
your 3bet was just nasty.

I sometimes opt to check on the river. I think its fine, dont like the 3bet at all tho.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:19 PM
yeah i agree that it was bad tbhi thought id raised it to $1 but even that still seems abit small
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:24 PM
you should 3bet bigger so that you can bet the flop and shove the turn without it being an overbet. preflop should be like $1.60 or something, then bet 2/3rds pot on flop and ship the turn. ez game.

also dont give credit to people for not being able to call u down light without evidence that they are good. river is most standard shove ever. u have $5 left and pot is $17, u think that someone who call with Jx twice is folding now?
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:27 PM
min 3bet is just uggh. I would raise well over $1 to like $1.4-$1.5. A raise like this will cut the opponents down to 1 (at least it should) 2/3 bet on flop. Ship turn.

I just edited and I swear I didn't just copy Jack's response.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:39 PM
Yeah, definitely fire again on the river here. If someone has 8x they're betting the river anyway and you're not folding, so you may as well get the money in for value against Jx.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox
you should 3bet bigger so that you can bet the flop and shove the turn without it being an overbet. preflop should be like $1.60 or something, then bet 2/3rds pot on flop and ship the turn. ez game.

also dont give credit to people for not being able to call u down light without evidence that they are good. river is most standard shove ever. u have $5 left and pot is $17, u think that someone who call with Jx twice is folding now?
+1

Even as played, a 2.25 flop bet leaves you less than a PSB for the turn
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 01:13 PM
agree with all above, 3 bet bigger bet the flop bigger and then the turn is a easy shove.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 04:52 PM
PRE-FLOP:

3bet more. Without the caller in between I'd go $1.40 or $1.50. With the caller I'm not going to make it any less than $1.60 and probably not more than $1.85.

(as played) FLOP:

Fine.

(as played) TURN:

Pot is $7.60. In the stacks you have $6.95 left. Betting is good but make it all-in.


(as played) RIVER:

Shove. ($17.80 pot and $3.55 left in your stack.) Any J is going to call you of course. Maybe not the best ever river card just if they happen to have some 8 ..... but if they can have an 8 they can also have TT,99 and probably 77 and 66 as they picked up gutshot draws on the turn. And with the pot and stacks as they are they'll call with all of these hands. You're way ahead of their calling ranges here. Super easy shove. But next time shove the turn though the small turn bet and shove the river may not be so bad.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-03-2010 , 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackwilcox
you should 3bet bigger so that you can bet the flop and shove the turn without it being an overbet. preflop should be like $1.60 or something, then bet 2/3rds pot on flop and ship the turn. ez game.

also dont give credit to people for not being able to call u down light without evidence that they are good. river is most standard shove ever. u have $5 left and pot is $17, u think that someone who call with Jx twice is folding now?
pretty much hits it spot on
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 12:32 PM
oop rr x4. In pos rr x3.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 01:00 PM
I would say with what you have left in your stack by the river you should have just pushed the rest in. You prob would have gotten paid off by one of the villains if not both. The only things you can be worried about it an 8,set, or 67. But I still though you passed the commitment threshold so you just push the river.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 01:11 PM
Nothing to add here really. 3 bet up to the 1.40-1.80 range, get the money in on the turn.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 01:42 PM
I find myself in similar positions sometimes - double barrel the flop and turn then check the river when in position.

My question here is, how much difference does it make that the OP still had the cut-off to act when he checked? I'm thinking I'm more likely to shove my remaining chips there, than if I were the last to act.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 01:47 PM
Either way the ranges that beat him a very slim he should be getting his chips in at some point.
was i right not to fire the river Quote
03-04-2010 , 02:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by obviously.bogus
I find myself in similar positions sometimes - double barrel the flop and turn then check the river when in position.

My question here is, how much difference does it make that the OP still had the cut-off to act when he checked? I'm thinking I'm more likely to shove my remaining chips there, than if I were the last to act.
with the effective stack remaining, cutoff should only be shoving sets. he should be checking back Jx as value shoving is too thin.

also relying on people to bet for u is pretty bad, just betting yourself is a better strategy in 99% of circumstances.
was i right not to fire the river Quote

      
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