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I am so horrible, where should I go from here I am so horrible, where should I go from here

11-17-2008 , 04:41 PM


Okay I'd be a little more pissed off this wasn't just 1-2 hours of pay from my job.. but I'm pretty embarrassed because it's 2 NL. The question is.. where should I go from here? Pretty much everything I've learned seems to be completely useless in 2 NL. I raise big, let's say 15x the bb, I get called by 4 people. Of course the board is always dry for me so if I cbet they seem to still call with trash, so it's pretty much always just fold to their bets or float and lose or give up. Every line they play seems insane, I tell myself that it's impossible to have the nuts, etc etc and they still manage to do. They do ******ed **** like check the turn when they're last to act and makes me think my top pair weak kicker is good, when they're just waejklaw4tlkjlk4wetart.

Should I start at 25 NL next time with a bigger roll where everything I read in books and watch in videos actually matters? I'm also annoyed as **** that I get a set 1/30 times instead of the odds I should be getting, and when I do, it's on an unplayable board where everyone auto folds.

What should I do now, my entire roll is gone.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 04:46 PM
I think you should review your starting hands, then accordingly play "ABC" TAG poker. No TPBK, you need the goods at micro-limits imo.

You said: Should I start at 25 NL next time with a bigger roll
I say: (well not really me, 2+2ers say) If you are not able to beat 2nl, you"ll be crushed at 25nl.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 05:10 PM
You need to play a lot tighter at 2nl, and really punish the players calling with trash when you hit your hands. If you have AK in a multiway pot and you don't hit, what purpose does c-betting hold ? You're basically burning money here. I would not recommend depositing more and playing 25nl, as you will get reamed if you can't beat 2nl... You could probably try 5nl if you are confident enough in your game; but I really can't recommend you starting out any higher.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 05:24 PM
If you post more detailed stats (start with VPIP, PFR%, etc) then I'm sure more of the 2+2'ers can pick out leaks in your game and help you out. It'll help give more constructive criticism than just your loss graph.

IMO either you should do what the others have said already, start off with playing ABC poker, at this level you shouldn't be expecting to win every hand with just TPTK. Or you could try what I did, play a different format instead. I had a horrible run at the 10PL games at FTP to start my poker career (my graph was much worse looking than yours) and I switched to grinding the sit 'n go's instead and have done quite well so far.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 05:47 PM
Please post more information. You posted one piece of information which explains most of your situation. You raised to 15x the big blind. You will win small pots and lose huge ones. Raise to 4bb+1bb/limper while you are starting out. Play tight starting hands. Play in position. Be very careful when bluffing. Stay out of marginal situations.

I have Brystmar's starting hand chart for NL TH 6M CG from CardRunners...
http://rapidshare.com/files/82881460/pfchart.pdf
UTG: Pocket pair, AK, AQ, AJ, KQs
UTG+1: Add KQo
Cutoff: Add A9+, A7s+, KT+, QJ, QTs, JT, J9s, T9s
Button: Add A4s+, A7o+, suited connectors down to 67s, offsuit connectors down to 78o, suited one gappers down to T8s

Read the chart for more information. Don't play 25NL until you can beat 10NL for a good win rate over many hands and you have the bankroll for 25NL. Good luck, Yojimgari
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 06:44 PM
If you have really been "studying" poker, you should know that in general, your TPBK is almost always worthless. You have played barely any hands and you arent even rolled for 2nl, so even if you WERE playing well (which I doubt you are), you could easily have just been experiencing variance.

I started poker 2 months ago and im a regular winner over 20k hands at 10nl now, and I started way down at 2nl. Spend more time in the forums, for some reason there is a huge abundance of people that think the micros are unbeatable because of the donkeys and that moving up to where people "respect their raises" will actually change anything.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 06:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimgari
Please post more information. You posted one piece of information which explains most of your situation. You raised to 15x the big blind. You will win small pots and lose huge ones. Raise to 4bb+1bb/limper while you are starting out. Play tight starting hands. Play in position. Be very careful when bluffing. Stay out of marginal situations.

I have Brystmar's starting hand chart for NL TH 6M CG from CardRunners...
http://rapidshare.com/files/82881460/pfchart.pdf
UTG: Pocket pair, AK, AQ, AJ, KQs
UTG+1: Add KQo
Cutoff: Add A9+, A7s+, KT+, QJ, QTs, JT, J9s, T9s
Button: Add A4s+, A7o+, suited connectors down to 67s, offsuit connectors down to 78o, suited one gappers down to T8s

Read the chart for more information. Don't play 25NL until you can beat 10NL for a good win rate over many hands and you have the bankroll for 25NL. Good luck, Yojimgari

Is it just me, or are those starting hands a little bit loose for a beginning player?
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 07:23 PM
Looks like about 17% of hands overall, which doesn't sound too bad. I can see beginners getting in to some trouble with some of the more speculative hands in late position though.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by breezh4x
If you have really been "studying" poker, you should know that in general, your TPBK is almost always worthless. You have played barely any hands and you arent even rolled for 2nl, so even if you WERE playing well (which I doubt you are), you could easily have just been experiencing variance.

I started poker 2 months ago and im a regular winner over 20k hands at 10nl now, and I started way down at 2nl. Spend more time in the forums, for some reason there is a huge abundance of people that think the micros are unbeatable because of the donkeys and that moving up to where people "respect their raises" will actually change anything.
So them checking the turn is normal when I'm last to act, even if the player out of position checks both on the flop and/or the turn, because that's the context I used TPBK in.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredericksburg
Looks like about 17% of hands overall, which doesn't sound too bad. I can see beginners getting in to some trouble with some of the more speculative hands in late position though.
It's a NL TH 6M CG chart from a great professional. This chart is tighter than Ryan Fee's NL TH 6M CG chart from his free e-book. I forgot to mention though that beginners should tighten up a little bit from the chart. Once you get better you can play the full chart. Also, if you want to try Ryan Fee's looser chart you can do it when you get even better and if you like a loose-aggressive style. www.ryanfees.com is the url for it. Be careful not to put too much money into speculative hands like suited connectors, offsuit connectors, suited one gappers, small pairs, and mid pairs. You want to get a flush draw, straight draw, or a set with these hands, or possibly two pair(where the board doesn't have a good chance of a higher two pair). Good luck, Yojimgari
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 10:38 PM
Whatever happens, don't be embarrassed, and don't be hasty to jump limits. Slow it down, grind it out, and improve your game.

Also, this notion about information in books and videos only mattering at 25NL+ stakes---neg. You could take any regular that plays 200NL on Pokerstars, throw them into a 2NL game, and they'd crush it so badly it'd make your head spin. The vast majority of them probably never even played or watched 2NL in their life. But, with the level of competition they are used to at the 200NL stakes... it'd be like putting the 1985 Bears defensive unit on the field against a middle school football team.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-17-2008 , 11:26 PM
didn't read the other replies but .... If the table is calling with trash that's a good thing. Stay tight and bet hard. You gotta play opposite the table if they're loose play tight, if they're tight play loose.

"If I move up they'll respect my bets" is an old cliche that's really not true. You must master playing tight first (crawling) before you loosen up and start getting tricky (walking).
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-18-2008 , 08:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckDiesel
if they're loose play tight, if they're tight find another table.
FYP for the micros. There's no reason to learn how to LAG it up before you are a winning TAG. None.
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-18-2008 , 12:54 PM
You lost $22 over 7 days....

Unless a person is a phenom or an unbelievable natural at the game, they are going to lose money learning how to play.

As you gain experience, you will still lose money. You just expect to have your profits gradually overshadow your losses.

As you become good at the game, you will start to see variance and because you are good at the game, you will play thru it and continue to see profits greater than your losses.

Once you become really good, or great at the game you will potentially see huge variance and swings, but over the long haul, your profits will greatly overshadow the losses.

This all takes either years of play, or extremely high numbers of hands played. It also takes study, correct management of both money, mental and physical state.

I also believe a person needs to use resources like 2+2, other player's experience, etc. to discuss strategy. Being able to discuss hands/plays to get, (and accept), criticisms to help improve your game is extremely important. Too many people, (most actually), cannot admit they might have leaks in their games and basically eliminate the likelihood of improving. Be Humble.

This process can take years and cost a lot of money. If a person isn't willing to accept this, just play for fun.

$22 lost is just the start of your investment to becoming a better player. Deposit and get back to school.

Just my thoughts....
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-18-2008 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
I would not recommend depositing more and playing 25nl, as you will get reamed if you can't beat 2nl...
QF emphasis

u MUST me doing something wrong if u cant beat 2NL :O
I am so horrible, where should I go from here Quote
11-18-2008 , 02:00 PM
Agree strongly with the reminder that everyone starts out not knowing how to play. We all did. I started with $50 and was on my last bullet when I hit a tournament score (don't try this at home).

Also remember that until you get good - any money in poker is a budget to sustain you as long as possible. Treat it as such (and good for you to not be playing for too high of stakes for your situation).

I'd start by studying - either books or video sites, whichever is your preference to start. Take things one concept/street as a time. Use this forum as a resource, it's the best in the business for a reason.
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