I realize this has probably been asked before, but I couldn't think of the correct search terms to efficiently find an answer.

From anything I've heard on this forum and elsewhere, live games are way softer than their online counterparts. I love playing poker just for the sake of playing poker, but it would be great to make some actual pocket money off of it. I am nowhere near the skill level required to accomplish that online, but I recently turned 21 and I was just wondering roughly where I'd have to be to take a shot at 1/2 live.

So I guess my question is just how much softer are these live games? What online limit is the level of play in live 1/2 most similar to?

let me preface this by saying that I am not rolled for 1/2 right now and i don't play live cash often because of it.

Having said that, my experience is that it really depends. It's a mixed bag. You defintely get some people in over their heads. They either don't like or don't know about online micros, and 1/2 is the lowest stakes they can find. Then there are the guys who think they're way better than they are. These can usually be spotted by their hoodies and glasses in a back alley charity poker room (add ipod for effect). it's like they went directly from their couch watching the pros on Espen and straight to the cash table outfit and all. All of these can be taken advantage of. I have found a few very good cash players at 1/2 though. They usually just aren't rolled to play anything else for one reason or another.
So, this is a very verbose way of saying learn to distinguish the fish from the sharks quickly. You're liable to run into any number of both at 1/2 cash. If you can't spot the donkey...

sharks @1/2 nl LOL

1/2 live games are very soft. If you're beating the micros online, you'll be fine. Most people there are on vacation or just looking to watch cards fly.

+1

I don't agree with being "fine" if you can beat the micro's online. So many "internet" guys go and bust very quickly when they try and play live even though they are technically better players.

It's all about adjusting. If you are good enough to adjust well to your table/villian then live poker is a piece of cake.

This +1000.

I watch online kids come to the casino on a daily basis. They know all the lingo, love to talk poker theory at the table, jaw about fulltilt this and poker stars that, and they bust out 3 times out of 4.

Were the internet players better players? Sure. Technically they were better, but they just failed to adjust to the table. They all keep trying to FORCE the live game to conform to their online poker paradigms.

And it won't.

Online players that can 'adjust' to live play, understand the naunces, know how to read people live, etc absolutely CRUSH the game.

Problem is, these sorts of online players are few and far between. Too many online players just can't help but try to pound a square peg into a round hole--that is, try to force the live game to play like their online games.

Anyways, this topic comes up a lot, here are some decent threads on the subject. Or you can just search type in live vs online

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...e-play-811444/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/26...-poker-611520/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/32...layers-889415/

^ thats very perceptive and interesting. I am def. guilty of trying to force online nuances into lives games in the past but it's been mostly isolated.

nl200 games are often the lowest live game available and you will run into considerably more fish. if you have more than 2-3 solid players at the table i'd be suprised. btw, solid does not mean TAG always like it does online. I have seen more succesful lags live....and it is very possible to win playing 30%+ vpip live if you are skilled and perceptive.

it depends on your level of skill obviously though as to where you stand. personally, I would be VERY suprised if a 3.0/100+ winning nl.05-.10 online player couldnt beat 1-2 live with the proper bankroll and time investment.

the prev posts have been spot on as well and were very valid.

For starters, where do you live? This might help in us finding you a good place to play.

Edit: I think I misunderstood the question. Live is way easier. Id equate 1/2NL live to something worse than 10NL online.

Soft.

I found playing live crazy, people call with pretty cards regardless of the raise in front. eg call with K4 hearts.

One hand i played the other night, i had KThh. Flop come Ts, 3c, 6s. So i bet, got 1 caller.

Turn As - I bet got called.

I was left with £13 and the pot was £100 i went all in on the river which was another blank.

I said Tens'

He mucked lol

After that, guy came to table, if he had a pair he was happy to get it all in. He hit 2 FH in 4 minutes with 82o and T8, went from £100 to £300 in 4 minutes

what is espen?

Easy, but very high variance. Value bet hard. Don't bluff.

Depending on where you play, there might be a time charge and high rake. making it nearly impossible to beat in the long run

espn.go.com/poker/

Terribly soft but a totally different game in a lot of ways. Just play solid ABC fundamental poker and run well and you win. It's really that simple once you get a couple hours under your belt and understand adjustments.

Stop trying to ISO so much preflop for one. It's never going to work. After that, I'll let you figure out like I had to

Try to beat NL10 online. Thats 5/10 cent $10 buyin. Beat it for at least 50,000 hands, 100k would be nice however. The hand ranges you will come across at 1/2 live are about what you see at 1/2 cent online. But you want to be a couple levels ahead of that. You can reach this goal in about 2 months. 1000 hands per day is very easy. Thats like 1 hour of 4-tabling rush poker, or 4 hours a night 4-tabling normal ring games anywhere else. Once you feel you are value betting the right hands in the right spots, and calling with the right range in the right spots you should feel pretty good about playing 1/2 live. The only people you need to worry about are other tight live players. There are on occasion a few decent ones in the sense that you arent going to get much money out of them because they dont pay off without a big hand. Dont assume you're just going to crush everybody.

Thanks for all the great replies so far guys.

For anyone who was wondering, I live in Scottsdale, AZ and the only casinos I know of that are reasonably near me are Casino Arizona and the one at the Talking Stick Resort, neither of which I've ever set foot in since I just turned 21.

Can anyone elaborate a little bit on the whole "live adjustment" thing? I realize that might be a tough question to answer comprehensively, but just what kinds of things are really different in live? Obviously reading an actual person (behavior) is something you never do online. Would it really hurt me at first when I have no experience with that and I just rely on my "online reads" (i.e. play tendencies like plays draws aggressively, stacks off with top pair, etc.)? What else is very different in live play?

Whenever I do decide to test the waters at a live table, I don't want to go in there and plop down more money in front of me than I ever have before at a poker table and proceed to just lose some/all of it, that'd really hurt my confidence.

soft but the rake is too high? well over here it is

Live poker is rigged.

Let me summarize what everyone has pretty much agreed on.

Liive 1/2 NL is soft, but it's imperative that you figure out whose who at the table. When i said sharks I meant in comparison to the other players. Figure out who has a clue and you'll be fine. As for differences, I mostly look for weakness. Players will broadcast when they're unsure about a hand. The few times they try to go hollywood it's super obvious. So for physical tells keep it simple. Look for players looking at their chips immediately after the cards come out and look for weak behavior. they're easy signs.

If an online player can't adjust to a 1/2 live game/is busting often, they weren't very good or capable of beating anything past NL25.

Live 1/2 is table dependent on whether it is insanely boring/soft or interesting and just soft. There really aren't tough tables no matter where you go, just get some hands in and you'll improve your live skill sets.

I’d like to add that one big difference between live and online play is bet-sizing. While a 3x pre-flop raise would be considered normal online, it's usually way too small for live play. With all the limping and calling going on, a raise to $6 is going to get a ton of callers more often then not. While it’s table-dependent, a $10+ raise is usually more common. You will also see some horrible bet-sizing post-flop. I've lost track of all the times I've seen someone bet something like $15 into a $125 pot or $50 into a $10 pot (yes, seriously). Many of the players aren't aware of the size of the pot or what percentage of it they should be betting. This, of course, is a good thing, as their mistake is your gain. Make sure you keep track of the size of the pot.

Also, as it was stated in a previous post, value-bet like mad. There will be no shortage of players chasing draws and calling down with middle-pair or top-pair/weak kicker. Bluff much less. That doesn’t mean never bluff, as there are bluffing opportunities; they are just not as prevalent as your v-bet opportunities, which is where you should be making the bulk of your profit. Along that same line of thought, I'd recommend c-betting less often.

Finally, your original post indicates this may be your first time playing live. If that’s so, then make sure you know the rules and regulations at that casino. And don't forget, it's normal to be nervous the first time you play live. That will wear off soon enough. Just play solid ABC poker. Pay attention. Relax. Breathe. Oh, and have some fun too!

well 2-5$ NL plays like 2nl online.. the problem is the buy in is minimum 20BB and the max 60BB at least at the casino near me

2/5NL live does not play like 2NL online.

Incidentally, too bad about the buyin restrictions in your area, that sucks

Dacrou brings up some valid scenarios, but im not sure his logic is sound behind it. Making larger preflop raises live has to due with the fact that players call with much worse odds. You dont have to make it $10-$15 to "get people to fold", because thats not your goal. Your goal is to make money. The beauty is at live, you can make a lot more money because people will call much larger bets, thats the only reason to raise significantly higher. If some guy said "ill call up to $50 preflop" and you had AA, well then of course you'd make it $50 instead of $6 or $15 or whatever. We always want to make the largest raise possible that someone will call. It just so happens that most internet players have read an article or two, even at NL2, and collectively feel comfortable with the typical 3xBB line.

That said, when it comes to playing vs live players, your ability to hand read and put them on various ranges is vastly superior to any body language you might detect. I would always trust my observations of their tendencies far more than how they're sitting/acting. There are still a few universal tells that every new player has which you can attempt to watch out for. Things like shaking hands, staring intensely at a drawy board, talking/hollywooding during a hand, looking at other peoples stacks while in a hand.