Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings

06-25-2010 , 02:01 AM
Over the past 20k hands I have had a reasonable amount of success at NL2. Over that period I am running at 16.05 bb/100. When analyzing my play I have noticed that all of my winnings have come from going to show down while my non-showdown winnings are negative. See Graph, never mind, how do you post a graph?.

Numbers wise though my winnings at showdown are at 3512 bb and is a nice constant slope upwards across 20k hands. My non showdown winnings have a very small negative slope at -571bb over 20k hands.

Some stats from HEM:
VPIP = 19.4
PFR = 13.8
3-bet = 4.5
Agg = 3.39
Agg% = 35.3
Flop Agg % = 36.0
Turn Agg % = 37.6
River Agg % = 30.0
flop c-bet = 58.3
Turn c-bet = 72.9
WTSD% = 24.7
W$SD% = 51.5

I know I have some significant leaks in my game but was hoping to pick an area to start working on. Being since my non showdown winnings are negative with a slight trend downward that is as good a place as any to start.

Any thoughts or suggestions on things to try to get this moving in the right direction?
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 02:05 AM
Don't change your game if it's working for you. Don't get obsessed with that redline, there are plenty of very profitable regs that have negative redlines.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Me A River
+1

and this one too: http://www.pokerlistings.com/strateg...edline-article
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 08:03 AM
You're not supposed to have a positive redline at the micros.

At nl2 I had one of the worst redlines Ive seen, yet one of the highest winrates Ive seen. In other words, the ONLY thing that matters is the green line.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 11:49 AM
I agree - i had a strongly negative redline at 2NL but still plenty of winnings to move up. At 5NL my redline has improved to close to breakeven. I think it is just the opponents at 2NL do not fold, so you dont get winnings on your redline, even when you have them dominated and still win the hand.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 12:08 PM
At 2nl, I don't know. But at 5nl and 10nl i have a positive redline. (look up graph in micros june results if u want an ex.) My flop agg % is like 50% or more. Which is also causing ur overall agg % to be a little on the low side (34%). That is prob the diff in the red line here. But at 2nl it may not be profitable.

It also looks like u call and limp a little more than I wud w/ a 6 digit gap in ur vpip and pfr (not that that is is a huge disparity, just saying u may be playing some hands a little weakly), if that is a large # of hands those stats are based on. But if ur winning at 2nl then maybe u shudnt change much till u move up. U can 3-bet alot at 5 and 10, which I do, so that may also be one of the differences as u take alot of pots down on the flop or turn or pre, cause of the preflop aggression. 3-bet % for me is more like 6-9%. But at 2nl may not be profitable as u will def get more bad 3-bet calls that hit the flop hard or suck out on u.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 12:12 PM
you make money from mistakes. In general players at 2NL call too much. That is where blue line comes from. Red line comes from players who fold too much. there are a lot less of those at 2NL so having a positive red line would be significantly harder.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 12:29 PM
I have found picking the right board texture and opponents to Cbet marginal holdings to also consistently help reduce red line losses.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 04:17 PM
as others have said dont worry about it if youre winning at that rate

btw all those saying you cant have a positive redline at micros, you can I have a friend who has breakeven blue line and skyhigh redline beating 2/5/10nl for well over 5ptbb

a lot of the redline is just value betting thin so you may want to think next time before checking back and think if you can be called by worse
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 05:36 PM
Thanks for the responses. They have been informative.

As a thanks, prior to this run I was sucking badly. I was bleeding money like a severed carotid artery. This forum has definitely help turn that around.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 06:33 PM
i woudln't worry about non showdown until maybe 50nl

100nl is great for non showdown

But anything below if you try to master your non showdown you will just get kicked in the balls by stations/ donks that call down any two cards..

I had about -$300 nonshowdown at 25nl

Break even nonshowdown at 50nl

+$1k nonshowdown at 100nl

Really depends on what stakes your playing. And you'l need to put villains on hand ranges and get them off the hands you think they have. If you do not have a general idea of putting people on ranges based on actions/ pfr/vpip etc I would suggest just value bet bluff rarely (they will give u credit bluff a lot). But bluffing less will get you paid less also the times when you have a hand

I'd say just work out against what types of villains what kind of boards will you c-bet. What their preflop ranges are

Say playing a 56/2 fish. You can probably double barrel any J K Q or A high boards and show a profit since they're less likely to have a hand.
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote
06-25-2010 , 08:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyworm
i woudln't worry about non showdown until maybe 50nl

100nl is great for non showdown

But anything below if you try to master your non showdown you will just get kicked in the balls by stations/ donks that call down any two cards..

I had about -$300 nonshowdown at 25nl

Break even nonshowdown at 50nl

+$1k nonshowdown at 100nl

Really depends on what stakes your playing. And you'l need to put villains on hand ranges and get them off the hands you think they have. If you do not have a general idea of putting people on ranges based on actions/ pfr/vpip etc I would suggest just value bet bluff rarely (they will give u credit bluff a lot). But bluffing less will get you paid less also the times when you have a hand

I'd say just work out against what types of villains what kind of boards will you c-bet. What their preflop ranges are

Say playing a 56/2 fish. You can probably double barrel any J K Q or A high boards and show a profit since they're less likely to have a hand.
lol its speedyworm

oh yeah OP best way is to bet
How to Improve Non Showdown Winnings Quote

      
m