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How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? How hard is it really to beat the micros these days?

08-09-2011 , 07:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha4zz
Please stop being so results orientated. Having just come out of an 8k break even stretch at 5nl, I wouldn't worry. It's all about volume, and ensuring that you stick to good BRM. Once you have 25k hands, not 400 or something that people can easily grind in an hour, post the results and take it from there. Downswings and variance will undoubtedly happen, but put in the volume and you'll come out on the other side.
Winning is a good thing, though, obviously; and this player has been doing well. He/she also has a following here at the moment, and people are looking for the results. Just read earlier posts to see. I should look to limit session times myself, and RG's posts have helped me to think about that.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-09-2011 , 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_UNOWEN
Winning is a good thing, though, obviously; and this player has been doing well. He/she also has a following here at the moment, and people are looking for the results. Just read earlier posts to see. I should look to limit session times myself, and RG's posts have helped me to think about that.
No problem with posting session results, but altering something like OP said needs more than 400 hands to work out whether it is effective or not. Therefore he needs to continue implementing it, and fully analyse whether it's effective or not. Tbh with 5nl, all you need is consistency and good BRM to succeed.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-09-2011 , 07:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha4zz
No problem with posting session results, but altering something like OP said needs more than 400 hands to work out whether it is effective or not. Therefore he needs to continue implementing it, and fully analyse whether it's effective or not. Tbh with 5nl, all you need is consistency and good BRM to succeed.
Yes, I'm sure you are correct. I guess RG can just do what is comfortable. Probably not a big deal either way.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-09-2011 , 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cha4zz
No problem with posting session results, but altering something like OP said needs more than 400 hands to work out whether it is effective or not. Therefore he needs to continue implementing it, and fully analyse whether it's effective or not. Tbh with 5nl, all you need is consistency and good BRM to succeed.
Well the issue i addressed was playing too many marginal hands out of position.
Which i don't need any sample to tell me this is wrong. i was doing this subconsciously in that losing session too often and picked up on it during the session review. I was simply getting myself into difficult spots not knowing what to do. Money goes clockwise around the poker table and position is key.
I think most noobs underestimate or don't understand how important position is.

My latest session all i was concerned with was to rebuild confidence, even tho i hate playing so nitty i thought this was best given my situation.

Basically i don't have connection at my current address, my pc is at my parents house hence the short sessions. I come by to play poker and sometimes dinner. Looking for a new flat before setting up internet connection. So short sessions are not really by choice although i really do think it helps you to play your A-game. I do start spewing after winning a few big pots and ending the session limits this.

I'm mostly on 2+2 via my blackberry.

Anyway i'm hoping to get my heater back on track =)
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-09-2011 , 08:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MR_UNOWEN
Winning is a good thing, though, obviously; and this player has been doing well. He/she also has a following here at the moment, and people are looking for the results. Just read earlier posts to see. I should look to limit session times myself, and RG's posts have helped me to think about that.
That would be 'HE'
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-12-2011 , 08:24 PM
I think for a recreational player, beating even 2NL with prove difficult. Cash games just find you out. There are so many spots where you can make a small mistake and lose a lot.

I guess that's what provides the EV for those that are willing to study and apply a better strategy.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-12-2011 , 11:03 PM
RG create your own goals thread ffs
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-13-2011 , 09:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGladiator


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Ok guys, i think i worked out what i was doing wrong yesterday and 'corrected' it.
Wasn't a bad run of cards, i actually had a good start, had a few coolers then TILTed off the rest playing badly chasing loses. Don't wanna bore you with the details but i deviated from my 'game plan'. Learned a lot from it tho.


^^Anyway my latest session, played 3 tables today, going back to basics
and nitted it up playing 16/12 just to get back to winning and rebuild confidence. Overall i'm happy with the way i played.

BTW thanks for the support guys
Great to hear red, Glad you are back on track and even better to see you can make an honest assessment of your own game that will stand you in a great position for future improvement.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-13-2011 , 03:11 PM
These are some sick graphs by Red 'superuser'Gladiator.

It's good your trying to keep your achievement in perspective, as it would be a shame if your game goes to pot when that enevietable downswing happens.

I took the same route, started at 2NL, moved up to 5NL, smoked 10NL until I was nearly rolled to switch to 25NL, but then I went on a month long downswing. It knocked my confidence and it took a large chunk of my BR with it.

At the mo, I'm running even and getting volume in. I don't let losses register on the radar any more. I carry on reviewing my sessions, reading and watching training vids, and always looking to improve. Topcats statement about little mistakes is spot on.

Just take variance, losses, downswings and heaters in your stride. Don't let it tilt you. Always look to improve your game.

GL
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 06:14 AM
RedGladiator, what is your VPIP/PFR?
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 07:52 AM
My lifetime VPIP/PFR is 23/17.
It varies a lot, I'll play 30/25 on a table of nits, 18/17 against a table of regs. When I started I was playing 24/16 for a while at 2NL cause I didn't know what I was doing.
On vacation at the moment so those figures are off the top of my head.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 03:58 PM
I hope RG makes a separate thread for his achievements, as all those graphs and stats detract from a potentially useful discussion.

To return to the OP's original question, it's impossible to quantify exactly how hard/easy microstakes games are these days, but common sense tells me that the lowest limit games will always be the easiest games in the long-term because of something akin to evolution via natural selection (or indeed table selection). Claims that 50nl is easier than 25nl are simply ridiculous. If 50nl was that easy, then good players would choose to play at that level in order to maximise profit. When the better players moved to the "easier" 50nl tables, it would cease to be easier than 25, so the weaker players would move back to 25. An equilibrium will result where each ascending level of stakes requires greater skill. It's pretty much the same as the food chain. Plankton at the lowest level... gets eaten by small fish at the next level... gets eaten by large fish at the next level... gets eaten by shark at the next level. Sharks don't feed on plankton. Sharks don't play microstakes.

As for me, I'm doing pretty well at $2 buy-in full ring NL. I don't yet have HEM, but I plan to buy it soon, as I think it will definitely help me improve my game. I've only logged 9000 hands in my personal spreadsheet, but variance is starting to even out with a bb/100 that comfortably beats the rake. I don't plan to move up to $5NL until I've played a lot more hands and built my bankroll into something that can cope with a downswing.

Last edited by ArtySmokes; 08-19-2011 at 03:59 PM. Reason: typo
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 04:21 PM
Agree with your evolution type argument on easier games being at lower stakes. Also. you won't need a HUD much until you get up to 5NL or 10NL it's easier at 2NL to just mark villains in the game software as being donk/not donk and after a few days you will have marked most of the ones that you will see. New guys wont have any stats in your HUD anyway.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 06:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedGladiator
My lifetime VPIP/PFR is 23/17.
It varies a lot, I'll play 30/25 on a table of nits, 18/17 against a table of regs. When I started I was playing 24/16 for a while at 2NL cause I didn't know what I was doing.
On vacation at the moment so those figures are off the top of my head.
Well thanks mate. I actually meant the VPIP/PFR from the micros. I've just started beating 2NL/5NL, playing a little nittier than I used to. (16/10) I am kinda worrying about higher stakes like 25-50NL because most of my earnings come from ******ed players (VPIP <50%) and on the lowest stakes people actually limp and let you limp behind with a lot of speculative holdings which I quess is not the case at higher (well still micro) stakes. I mean HOW HARD is to beat 50NL these days? I guess beating 2NL is never gonna be hard. I also play on PS, are players on other sites the same or worse (or better)?
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 07:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wtfpwnage
Well thanks mate. I actually meant the VPIP/PFR from the micros. I've just started beating 2NL/5NL, playing a little nittier than I used to. (16/10) I am kinda worrying about higher stakes like 25-50NL because most of my earnings come from ******ed players (VPIP <50%) and on the lowest stakes people actually limp and let you limp behind with a lot of speculative holdings which I quess is not the case at higher (well still micro) stakes. I mean HOW HARD is to beat 50NL these days? I guess beating 2NL is never gonna be hard. I also play on PS, are players on other sites the same or worse (or better)?
Try playing 4nl on Merge some time. Beatable; but lots of pretty tight players, 30-20/25-15 and tighter, is ballpark for a high % of the competition. I hope there is a new player influx soon.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 07:55 PM
30-20 / 25-15 is not tight.

In fact thats super loose/loose

Play some PS lots of 9/9/15 people and less.

Last edited by Frostyice; 08-19-2011 at 08:06 PM.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyice
30-20 / 25-15 is not tight.

Play some PS lots of 9/9/15 people and less.
Not sure what stakes you are speaking of. Yes, I agree that the numbers I refer to are not nitty; but they mean lots of people who have some idea of what is going at least in terms of unl. Before BF the unl numbers on FTP were quite a bit looser than the current Merge stats imo. Competition is better especially when more non-casual players had to scramble for a room. Yeah, though, I'd like to play PS; but I can't because of locale. I would assume more fish there, no? One last thing. I was watching some nl10, nl25, and nl50 last night on M. Small sample, but some of those games actually seemed looser and fishier than the 4nl. One table looked so bad that I was tempted to jump in just because the opportunity looked so good.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frostyice
30-20 / 25-15 is not tight.

In fact thats super loose/loose

Play some PS lots of 9/9/15 people and less.
I assume he must be talking strictly 6-man? Even that I would say tight 22/17 or even 19/15

Merge is getting bad also, too many 12/9 and nitty 10/6
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-19-2011 , 08:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaPyrite
I assume he must be talking strictly 6-man? Even that I would say tight 22/17 or even 19/15

Merge is getting bad also, too many 12/9 and nitty 10/6
Yes, sorry! I should've stated all comments refer to 6-max.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-20-2011 , 09:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtySmokes
I hope RG makes a separate thread for his achievements, as all those graphs and stats detract from a potentially useful discussion.
This. It's an interesting subject for people like me playing the very bottom of the microstakes.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
08-20-2011 , 06:25 PM
OVERBET,OVERBET,OVERBET!
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote
02-20-2014 , 11:20 AM
So after a few years out, I've started again yesterday on stars.
2 tabling, 6-max 25NL without a HUD. I'm on holiday from work so I've got some free poker time. Just down loaded HEM2 on the laptop, dont know how the **** it works.

If anyone can tell me how to printscreen would be appreciated. I dont have mspaint and cant seem to locate the clipboard. shift+prntScr doesnt seem to work.

Anyway going to try to beat 25NL, i'm rusty as ****. Don't seem to know what I'm doing half the time. I feel like a complete noob. Need to buy a mouse to use on the laptop. Will Add more tables slowly.
How hard is it really to beat the micros these days? Quote

      
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