I am appalled at how I've seen some graphs where the red line (nonshowdown) is consistently increasing, or even breakeven for that matter. My graph is basically a consistent downward straight line while my showdown winnings are conistently on the upswing (larger that my nonshowdown winnings too).

I tried a new style of play my last session and am thinking that if your nonshowdown winnings are great, wouldn't it be concieved as general spew? I know there are some very good players out there but I still can't get a clue as to how to actually break even in these values (or even lessen my slope for that matter).

Lastly, any general advice on how to improve my non-showdown winnings would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

I have a breakeven/slightly up red line over more than 200k hands in the micro's. You shouldnt be too concerned if you play micro's, just try to go to showdown a lot.

The only line the counts is the thick green line imo.


But a few tips:

- Raise limpers when you have the button/co (if button is tight) with a wide range: a4s k8o etc, you wanna have a hand that makes a good tp vs their limping range
- Bash the blinds, if they keep folding their blind open any two on the button when nobody opened
- 3 bet more

GL!

stop calling

do you ever check raise?

I don't even call that often though. Maybe I shouldn't worry about it too much since I'm winning regardless, but it still pisses me off to an extent because the great players are the ones with decent/good red lines.

Like I stated in my first post, I tried to play much more aggresive in my last session and had one of my worst ones in a while. Some examples of hands: 3bet on BT w/ k8/a7 hit top pair / double barrel and lose to pair/ higher kicker. I tried double barreling more with air to try to win the pot(something I normally don't do) but end up giving up on the river against passive players. This is all at 50nl rush btw. Are there any nice articles or write-ups for that matter that would help me?

Thanks and I really do appreciate all the help!

Maybe I could c/r more often. The only time I do this (on the flop) is with flush draws/2p/sets/TPTK type hands. Is there a wider range I should do this with (obv this is villian dependent too).

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/78...3/#post9996739


I started checkraising when I might have the best hand but any card on the turn will be a bad card and I like it, but I should stop barreling once they call. I think a check fold is best then.

Thanks for the link. I think example 3 in that post is where I need to c/r more often as I try to call and make hero calls etc (just my style of play). Should I c/r that situation more against a very aggressive opponent who is more likely to multiple-barrell? I know that if I just call in those spots the villian has at least equal equity/can catch a pair etc. but thus far Ive considered myself a good reader when calling in those situations.

my redline is pretty gay as well btw. if you reach enlightnment, feel free to share. i know for sure mine is cause i call too much

At micros having a losing red line is some what normal as people do not fold enough.
Your focus should be on show down winnings and value hands.

Would you consider 50NL micros though? At what level should I really start to be more aggressive (as to polarize my range in many different areas). 200NL?

I dont think you polarization is what you think it means. You want to Depolarize you range, polarize is what yo u are doing right now probably.

Also, red line doesnt matter at all, I know a big nl600 winner with not so good redline.

Can anyone else confirm this? I always thought polarizing means keeping everything on the same level/balancing. Sorry mmac you're prob. right I just want to make sure and am too lazy to look it up

go all in every hand. that will give you a one of the best red lines in the world.

Yes at least. I play 100 nl some also and my redline is better, but not a whole lot because people still cant fold for the most part and a lot cant hand read all that well either still.

So I would say 100 minium to be concerned.

Basically a polarized range in a certain spot means you either have the nuts or air, and sometimes you never have air or nuts if ur very polarized. A depolarized range means you can have nuts, draws, semi bluff, and total air.

But I wouldn't worry about it too much, I just moved up to NL100 and it feels like its still not a big issue.

stop folding

I remember verneer saying you could boost the redline by making more good marginal calls.

You are confusing polarized with merged.

polarized = opposite ends of your range
merged = full spectrum of your range

raise more on the button/co to steal blinds

value bet thinner on every street

cbet less as a bluff on flop

double barrel/triple barrel more as a bluff

play as little pots oop without the initiative

btw you dont need a good redline

you can beat any stakes with a breakeven redline

Thanks everyone

You bluff too little, if you where bluffing too much, your blue line would be negative ....

Probably true, although I do semibluff alot with flush draws etc. I guess i don't feel comfortable bluffing THAT much at this stage. I'm happy with the way I'm playing and my results it's just that I'm scared when I keep moving up that this won't cut it/I will have to fix my redline. I've noticed whenever I go allin at somepoimt I have most of the time at least 70+% equity. So that's a good thing I guess. I'm just wondering if it's possible to have my current showdown winrate WITH a better nonshowdown line. I guess it's harder as there'll prob be more variance, something I don't deal very well with sometimes.