I simply have no clue how to read a villian's range...Is there a trick to do it? I try counting the times they VPIP per cycle, but it seems like in the micro range they tend to VPIP 3-4 times in a 9 hand rotation...How do you figure them for a hand if you never get to a showdown?

No easy trick to it. Comes with observation and experience. Its bascially a process of elimination.
Here's an example of how it works:

Setting: live 1/2 no-limit game
Villian is a TAG. Come in most pots opening. So far you have seen him open from EP with 99, AJs and A4s so far today.
This hand you have QQ in middle position.
Villian opens UTG to 4bb: So now you put in a range of hands he would open in this position based on your observation. This would be ATLEAST 99, AJs with some small AXs. So you then estimate a range of EP open to be (99+, ATs+, A2s-A5s, QJs+, KTs+).

Lets say you 3bet with QQ to 13bb, the villian 4bet you to 18bb. Now you have to estimate his 4bet range as a subset of his opening range. This can be (KK, AA, AK) because we assume he folds everything else. At this point it becomes a maths problem whether we continue on (use POKERSTOVE to estimate equity of hands vs range).

Its important to keep his opening range consistent throughout the hand. Lets say he opens in EP and he starts to become aggressive on a flop of 357r. Based on his opening range, it is unlikely he will have a set because 3,5,7 is not in his opening range. Straight is not possible too. The main point to take here is, don't start putting in hands into his range that is not consistent with his general play. This usually leads to monsters-under-the-bed syndrone.
So from an opening range of (99+, ATs+, A2s-A5s, QJs+, KTs+) you can estimate his hand strength on a flop of 357.

If its online, and you have not seen any showdowns, then you just have to tighten up, play a tighter range vs them and force a showdown. Its impossible for anyone to play a session without showing down a hand, unless they only play 5 hands and then leave.

Hope this helps.
btw, any more tips on body language?

Keep an eye on the way in which they place their bets. Sometimes loosely throwing chips in with a little "Flick" of the wrist, can mean they are FOS...People that tend to count out their chips and slide them in usually have a hand, and are tight, regimented players..

Pretty much previous post has it all summarized.

I'd like to point two things that come to my mind.

Big bets are generally for big hands so even is you've seen the guy open up with 99+ from UTG and the board is 7-high and he keeps on bounding.. don't think that he can only have overpair. If A4s is good for him, most likely any pair is also good for him.

And more importantly: Practice hand reading!
When you're at live table and you have folded your hand.. keep on observing what is happening. Who raises, who calls.. how they bet on subsequent streets.. try to put them in a hand range and when you see a showdown: Pay attention!

Your reads will improve and you will begin to see what type of hands these people play and therefore you make better estimations on preflop.

Start off by learning how to play solid ABC tight-aggressive poker.

Then start reading other TAG players - what hands would you have done that with? It won't be perfect, because they are not you, but it will be close.

Then start reading players who are looser/tighter than you - open up or close down the ranges as appropriate for their difference from you.

Then start taking in the more detailed stats (3bet, cbet, etc) and any notes you make about how they play (eg, bet big on the flop with a flush draw, etc) so you can adapt to their quirks.

Over time and with constant practice you'll find yourself able to read your opponents, and be able to exploit their leaks.

look at positional VPIP stat, plug numbers into Pokerstove POW! range.

What would a Tight Aggressive Player exactly be?

1) Im playing on Bovada, which doesnt give those stats =-( Im gonna go back to Lock Poker..

2)How exactly do you use pokerstove? What stats go in "Equity" and "Output"?? Im a newb towards all of this..

Someone who carefully selects the hands they play and does not play passively with them.

meaning they BET the crap out of them? lol

Errrrr - no. What I mean is they are selectively aggressive, but aren't passive - ie, they prefer raising to calling. But that doesn't mean they're raising indiscriminately.

You need to do some reading. Get a beginners' book or search google or this forum for "getting started with poker". Seriously - knowing what a TAG style is and how to play it is the basic foundation for everything else.

If you type a figure in the percentage box on the hand range page, such as 25% (or just use the slider) Pokerstove will highlight the "best" 25% of hands. (It's heavily weighted towards Broadways, as Stove's hand rankings are derived - I think - from simulating 3 players going to showdown, so you can often remove the lowest hands and add pocket pairs instead). You calculate equity by setting a range for one player, choosing a range (or exact cards) for another (usually hero) and then hitting evaluate.

I personally prefer Equilab, as that even comes with "presets" showing typical ranges for each seat at the table.
For instance, UTG in a full ring game might open raise with 6.49% of hands. This range is 88+, ATs+, KQs, AQo+.
An aggressive player on the button might open-raise with a range of 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o, which represents 27% of hands.
That same player won't call with such a wide range though. If UTG opened, then the button will probably fold hands like AT, KJ. (He'd also re-raise (3-bet) with quite a few hands too).

But if UTG opened with 7% of hands, and button called with 27% of hands, then button's equity is just 37%, but he can often make up for a worse starting hand because he is in position.
http://www.pokerstrategy.com/software/10/
Equity Win Tie
UTG 62.52% 61.11% 1.41% { 88+, ATs+, KTs+, AQo+ }
BU 37.48% 36.07% 1.41% { 22+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J8s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, A8o+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo, T9o, 98o }

This might help you in learning pokerstove, from the micro limit library library.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/35...-tl-dr-449010/

DO you find that online players who are used to using programs like Pokerstove and Shark scope are almost like a fish out of water in a live game? Or what you learn using these programs is somewhat retained in live play??

And what Im saying as far as figuring range, say I got a villain whom I noticed voluntarily plays 3 out of 10 hands per cycle, can i assume he is playing close to a 30% range or is that not accurate at all..

No because that player might be only playing 5% of hands UTG but 40% of hands on the button. Stats can be more of a hindrance than a help if you don't use them correctly.

So you need to evaluate a players RANGE based on their position also...God this game is more complicated than I ever thought..lol..

On a side note I just lost a hand where I had a straight flush draw and made the regular flush, to a hand where the guy called a pre flop position raise with A6S and I needed that darn 6. He had an Ace high flush...Poker stove said I was over 85% equity at the time based on his range..lol..

No, you have to consider position, but mostly lol sample size. You have to see alot more than one rotation.

Ok so if you watch someone for say 5 table rotations (about 45-50 hands) and he VPIP say, 10 hands out of those, but you never see his showdown, he either folds or takes the pot down. How do you calculate a range for him then?

would you say he VPIP 20% of the hands at that point? And where do you get a range from that? I understand watching hands and how people bet ect ect, but I just seem to get blindsided often with an unseen hand..Im trying to understand better myself...I often get crushed by people that call weird combos pre flop and Im giving them credit for larger hands, but they always seem to suck out on me..

Example, guy calls me with 5 2 off and got the straight against my AK with A on the flop...It seems like peole just run me down no matter what I do..


BTW Ill be at the PARX tonight on the 1/2 if anyone wants some easy money

Many bad players have no concept of position. They will play any "pretty" hand in any position. They especially like suited cards. An ASAP. player will enter a pot with Anything Suited in Any Position. These type of players will have a VPIP of 40% or more, will play weak hands, and call far too often. They are therefore very hard to put on a hand, but if there is a flush draw on the flop and they call your bet, they are often on the draw. If the flush hits and they bet, get out of the way.
Better players play tight in early position (around 10% of hands), then gradually open up their range, so they play 30-50% of hands when they have the button.
As the hand progresses, someone's range can be narrowed. If there is a flush draw on the table and someone bets/raises, they either have the flush draw, or they have a vulnerable hand like TP or overpair that is worried about the flush. If the board is A795 with 2 spades, hands like KQ and JT are no longer in villain's range. He usually has the ace, a set, or the flush/straight draw. Your equity against those hands is much less than it is against KQ, JT etc. (To beat the ace-high flush draw, you have to hit a one-outer, which is roughly a 1 in 45 chance). The moment a hand begins, you should start narrowing a villain's range. As he makes bets or calls, you have to remove hands from that range. If the flop is ace high and he bets, he's not often going to have pocket 3s, for example. He probably has an ace. You therefore have to think "Can I beat an ace? Do I have the right odds to call with my straight draw?" When you think villain's hand/range has yours beat, and he's betting it, you should fold.
He'll have a VPIP of around 20%, but if he's a decent player, his range will be weighted toward big aces and pairs in early position, smaller pairs and suited connectors in late position.

After a few orbits you can usually tell how good a player they are by how they react to certain spots and board textures. 5 orbits is not enough to be able to tell too much from the stats anyway - even if they're extreme he could just have had extreme hands/boards.

I know I've sat at tables before playing very tight ranges but with the stats of a maniac because I just keep hitting cards and flops.

I always start out by assuming a player is competent and tight-aggressive until they really provide evidence that they're not. The stats are not usually the first thing that does that.

By the way - you only need to see a player do something once to know they're capable of it. For example, if they squeeze vs a late position raise and button call, then fold to a 4bet, you know they are capable of squeeze-bluffing - and that tells you an awful lot about what type of player they are in just one hand. This sounds obvious but it's amazing how many people focus on the summary percentages and ignore the richer information they get from observing actions.

I'd get pokerstove and move sidebar to 5% and see what happens when in picking pre flop......

Should show a profit over time.