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How do i improve my win rate (NL25) How do i improve my win rate (NL25)

08-03-2008 , 08:47 PM
i have improved my game quite a bit in last 2 months and right now i am wondering how do improve my win rate... whats concepts should i be looking for... my in 50k sample are... playing 6max btw
VPIP% - 18.3
PRP% - 14.4
3bet% - 4.2
WTSD% - 22.8
W$SD% - 49.7
Flop c-bet- 74%
vs 3bet fold preflop - 52.3
vs 3bet call preflop - 42.3
Agr - 3.86
flop agr - 4.56
turn agr - 3.65
river agr - 2.15

steal % - 29.3%
steal from CO - 27.5
steal from BTN - 40.7
steal from SB - 14.9

running right now at 2.39 BB(big bets)/100

if i didnt mention any of the stats you could find usefull to make a comment about what should i be looking to improve free free to say so... i ll add them up...

i really feel good about my game right now... since i started playing ABC at NL25 my win rate is getting better with every hand.... tho i am playing like that for the last 10k hands or so... i am confident my winrate will grow up till like 3.5-4 BB/100 but i dont want to stop there while i am down at NL25 i want to improve as much as i can till i am grinding at my regular style...

right now i am not sure where to move improvment wise... i am working on playing my A game all the time and other attitude/thinking things.. i am guess i should 3bet lighter as i am pretty tight with my 3bets but not overly.. also would like to hear opinions about my agr factor on streets... as i dont quite see how i can change them if i am too agrressive on flop or too passive on river... because most of the time i am playing cards and reads and a lot of players just like to press that pot button when the river comes.. hit or miss... i feel my weakest point is river play... because like i said i dont want to make those calls when i have marginal hands..... because people play like either they show nuts or no pair when they bet pot..... anyway any advice appreciated... thx
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-03-2008 , 10:07 PM
Your low WtSD and high AFs tell me you don't call enough when it's likely you're good.

Things like peeling a street or two with stuff like 88 on K73r for example. Against maniacs, which you should be searching for, it's very important that you're capable of calling them down with marginal hands or else they'll run you over. Obviously you can play ABC, wait for a big hand and hope to stack them but big winrates will come from actively hand reading and trying to exploit them.

You could up your steal % as well, particularly from the SB.

I don't think light 3betting would be hugely important at 25nl but doing it a little more frequently in position couldn't hurt. Opponent tendencies are very important here.

Against tight regulars who are unlikely to call you, and especially when they're OOP, it's important to use a polarized range of hands you're happy to stack off with (like QQ+/AK for example) and stuff like SCs/suited two gappers/suited aces which you can't coldcall profitably but will play well postflop those rare times that you do get called. If you get 4bet you're happy to fold as you haven't lost anything. However, if you 3bet a hand like 99-JJ or AQ and get 4bet you'll have to fold and that cost you the opportunity cost of coldcalling.

Against bad regs or aggressive fish who'll call too much even when OOP it's fine to have a non polarized range. You can have an extremely wide range in these types of situations, it's almost like an isolation raise, and expect to take it down with a cbet on the flop very frequently.

W$WSF would be handy.

Have you read all the threads in the stickies?

Micro Stakes Sticky
Small Stakes Sticky
Small/Micro Stakes Video Collection
Anthology

Have you considered getting a subscription to a training site, DC is pretty cheap?
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 01:01 AM
This is a good video (~70mins), http://www.driveway.com/t3m2c6m2z4. John Anhalt sets out to try and maximise his win-rate moving from 50nl to 200nl. It's fairly recent so should reflect today's games. He obviously ran well but he also describes some strategies / lines to maximise EV at small stakes which might be of interest. John usually plays $1000nl - $5000nl.

See http://pokerzion.com/Free_Poker_Videos.asp for more background.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 10:42 AM
W$WSF = 40.7
1) i am not sure about stealing more from SB... i mean i play very tight range there since i dont want to end up playing pot OOP if i get called... i usually choose to play more from BB when SB raises since i am IP.... so what would be good % of steals from SB in your opinion?
2)well its so tough to call 3 streets of bluff.... i mean these guys can have ATC.... the hardest calls are on river... where there are so many possibilities what they might have... even if i have like 2 pair they always can have set or straight... and usually active bluffers just bet pot all 3 streets... so its really tough....
3) i think i know most of info in stickies.. but i ll look over if i have missed something... aslo speaking about training site... not sure right now if its worth it... i mean i dont like the idea to pay every month... + there are a lot of sites for free like..
www.pokertrikz.com
4) well what winrate i should be expecting at NL25 playing ABC and how much my winrate can go up if i start calling them down more often... using hand reading and expoiting them...
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 03:18 PM
1) My steal% from the SB is about 45% but that's obviously on the high side. Getting called isn't the end of the world btw, we'll have initiative and can take down the pot frequently on the flop or even on the turn if a good double barrel opportunity occurs. Pay attention to opponent tendencies, we can go pretty crazy against nits but obviously calling stations are bad to steal from. We usually shouldn't be in a situation where we're OOP against the stations anyway, seat selection is very important and being in one of the three seats to the left of the fish will drastically increase your winrate.

Yes, playing back at SB steals is very important as well, most players won't call a 3bet OOP so these are good opportunities to use a polarized 3betting range. When you're in the BB you can call wider as well so stuff like SCs can be called and you should use even weaker hands to 3bet, stuff like offsuit connectors for example.

2) It may seem that they have any two cards but there are definitely situations where their line makes very little sense. Take notes of what they show down. Will they bet the river with very weak made hands? In those spots their bets make little sense, they'll rarely fold out worse and rarely get called by better, so top pair hands gain value but things like bottom pair or ace high go down. Some of them are won't bet those types of hands which make their ranges very weighted towards bluffs and calling down becomes easier. Some players will bluff at scare cards but won't value bet them as thin, some players slowplay their big hands, some players have very obvious bet sizing tells, etc. You just have to take notes on their tendencies and figure out ways to exploit them.

3) I'm not familiar with PokerTrikz. Yeah if you're on a limited bankroll then the training sites might not be the best option.

4) If you table select well, etc.,etc. it's shouldn't be too hard to make ~10ptbb/100 at 25nl.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 03:23 PM
Sounds like you are very serious about improving and that is good, but investing in a training site is very helpfull.
I have never tried DC, but use CR and the improvment the videos there have had on my game is worth a lot more too me than the monthly fee.
Something to consider imo
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 03:59 PM
yeah well since i am playing for living as of 2 months already i am very serious about that..

anyway i am thinking of taking that DC free offer( dunno like 7 days or something) as soon as i am moving to NL50... i really dont want to waste money right now since i think i can get enought info my reading/posting on how to beat NL25.... if i ll be doing good in NL50 i might sing up for one of the training sites... but i am defeinetly singing up as i reach NL100...

Red...

1) my stats for BvsB play are...
SB defend steal 12.1%
SB reraise steal 4.2%
SB folded to steal 87.9%
BB defend steal 17.5%
BB reraise steal 3.8%
BB folded to steal 82.5%

i feel like this is something i havent been working on... basicly playing very tight in blinds... since i avoid playing OOP.... raising only mostly 99++ and AQ++ sometimes AJ
so tell me what you think of my stats if you get a chance... and where to improve more.. i am definetly start paying more attention to BvsB play....

2) well talking about calling down.. well its really tough like i said.. i know what you mean and i feel like i am pretty good at making those reads/calls but i am afraid to overdo it so i cut down a lot more... i mean i feel like getting reads and finding patterns is one of the best part of my game... (also being tricy and outsmart people when there is some history involved) but since i start to play ABC i have cut down a lot of this.. since people just dont fold when you try to push them off their hands.... perhaps calling down is an option i should be willing to explore more.. (tho i do it lately... been calling some big river bluffs off like second pair or top pair on scary board... where i felt like the guy is just makeing a move... )
i guess i gonna try things slowly... as i think i am playing NL25 atleast a month or perhaps 2 ( but i might have to stay longer if needed)

4) 10ptbb/100 ? are you kidding ? i mean thats 20 big blinds/100 its like 5$/100...

wow i was thinking if i reach 4-5ptbb/100 this month it would be great... i mean how good of a player you should be to make so much? or i better ask how much would players from like NL600/NL1000 make at NL25.... because to tell you the truth i know that there is nobody over 5ptbb/100 at these levels right now... 10ptbb/100 thats crazy lol.. but still how realistic it would be to make such winrate... i really need an objective opinion here... so i would bust my balls that my winrate is low or be thinking i am "god" because i am running at 4-5ptbb/100.... its really important for me to understand the facts there so i could make best decidions and analyis for my game... thx a lot red... your post really me to think about new things i should be looking for....
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 04:26 PM
1) You're probably not 3betting enough but I don't know how light people steal at 25nl. 3betting things like 99, TT or AQ is pretty terrible if you're planning on folding to a 4bet, or if they never call with worse.

3) Well obviously 10ptbb/100 is a really good winrate but for somebody playing maybe 4 tables, table selecting really well and actually trying to exploit opponents instead of just playing a robotic ABC style, it's certainly possible. The reason you don't see many of these players is they move up pretty quickly .

Yeah 4-5ptbbs is definitely a good winrate.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 04:44 PM
So what do i do? Make my 3bet range wider in blinds or just dont 3bet at all? i am not sure why 3betting those hands are bad?

Well i guess i aint good enough to reach 10ptbb/100... my plan is to get to 5ptbb/100 and then move to different site and grin some bonuses perhaps 6 tabling... and build BR/some extra money to withdraw and move to NL50
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 04:58 PM
10ptbb/100 is a phenomenal winrate. 5ptbb/100 is still a very good winrate.

Quote:
Well i guess i aint good enough to reach 10ptbb/100...'
Study, play good, don't tilt, don't doubt yourself, winrate will follow.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 04:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalGamer
yeah well since i am playing for living as of 2 months already i am very serious about that..
2bb/100 at 25nl and you are a 'pro'? lol
Must be nice living at home rent free and eating moms cooking.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 05:03 PM
Reread my first post.

Yeah getting bonuses is good. 6 tabling is o.k. I guess but you'll improve a lot faster if you play less tables and really concentrate on getting better. You might have a slightly better hourly rate now but you'll find it a lot harder to improve and move up. My advice would be to wait until you're beating at least 200nl and then start adding more tables if moving up again isn't that big a deal to you.

Even then I think 4 tabling and getting good enough to beat stakes like 1000nl or 2000nl+ is going to be far more profitable then 12 tabling 200nl forever.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maso777
2bb/100 at 25nl and you are a 'pro'? lol
Must be nice living at home rent free and eating moms cooking.
He's probably 18, as am I. More living at 25nl then at Micky Dee's.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruzerthebruzer
He's probably 18, as am I. More living at 25nl then at Micky Dee's.
True. I made $43.15 at 25nl today in 3 hours. (2.84 bb/100) 20-tabling.
Not sure if that win rate is any good or not but it works out to ~$14/hr.
PT says $34.90 paid in rake so possibly with rakeback you would earn an extra $3/hr.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 05:33 PM
20 tabling FR right? I think that's a pretty decent winrate for 20 tabling.
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalGamer
i have improved my game quite a bit in last 2 months and right now i am wondering how do improve my win rate... whats concepts should i be looking for... my in 50k sample are... playing 6max btw
VPIP% - 18.3
PRP% - 14.4
3bet% - 4.2
WTSD% - 22.8
W$SD% - 49.7
Flop c-bet- 74%
vs 3bet fold preflop - 52.3
vs 3bet call preflop - 42.3
Agr - 3.86
flop agr - 4.56
turn agr - 3.65
river agr - 2.15

steal % - 29.3%
steal from CO - 27.5
steal from BTN - 40.7
steal from SB - 14.9

running right now at 2.39 BB(big bets)/100

if i didnt mention any of the stats you could find usefull to make a comment about what should i be looking to improve free free to say so... i ll add them up...

i really feel good about my game right now... since i started playing ABC at NL25 my win rate is getting better with every hand.... tho i am playing like that for the last 10k hands or so... i am confident my winrate will grow up till like 3.5-4 BB/100 but i dont want to stop there while i am down at NL25 i want to improve as much as i can till i am grinding at my regular style...

right now i am not sure where to move improvment wise... i am working on playing my A game all the time and other attitude/thinking things.. i am guess i should 3bet lighter as i am pretty tight with my 3bets but not overly.. also would like to hear opinions about my agr factor on streets... as i dont quite see how i can change them if i am too agrressive on flop or too passive on river... because most of the time i am playing cards and reads and a lot of players just like to press that pot button when the river comes.. hit or miss... i feel my weakest point is river play... because like i said i dont want to make those calls when i have marginal hands..... because people play like either they show nuts or no pair when they bet pot..... anyway any advice appreciated... thx
what usually works.. Call when you got the best hand and fld when you dont
instant improvement
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote
08-04-2008 , 07:24 PM
well i am 23... and i ve made 1.6k in last 2 month... and i am earning more than if i would be working some **** ass job which i hate.. well not quite eating moms cooking but i dont have to pay a rent which is good for now.... tho its wont be an issue in few months...

so yeah.. a poker "pro" at NL25

yeah red i know what you are saying... i red fees 6max guide and he said the same.. 4 table max to get most out to improve your game... my idea to bonus whore for a month or two i just because i need some cash to take off.. so i will be making more for that time but once i move to NL50 i am 4 tabling only again till i get to NL200 where i am planing to stay for a while and play some more tables to get everything settled in my life...
How do i improve my win rate (NL25) Quote

      
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