I've studied poker on and off for several years.

I've read 7 poker books that were recommended here on 2+2 and re-read most of them.
Two about tournaments, two about cash games and one about bluffs.
Also read two other books on live tells.

I've posted a lot of hands on these forums.
I've reviewed a lot of hands from other players.
I review hands in my PokerTracker.
I actually think a lot about hands I played and what range my opponents could have and how I can play optimally against those ranges, ...

I've read, re-read and studied a bunch of the strategy posts found around the various forums here.

I feel like I should be a pretty good player by now.
But my results just are not there.

I'm a losing player online for like -2BB/100 over 20k hands.
I'm a losing player in online tournaments.
I'm a losing player in live tournaments (after 30 tournaments my ROI is almost -80%)


I feel like I'm doing something wrong, but I have no idea where to go from here.

20k hands not enough volume to really worry about, especially if you consider how different you were as a player over the first 5 k hands and the 5k most recent hands. Same thing with the tournaments, not a big enough sample.

Not that you are a pro, but pros will lose over 30-40k hands sometimes and not cash once in 30+ tournament stretches.

Just keep grinding.

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what stakes?

Poker books aren't really useful except maybe Janda, you should check out his new book if you haven't.
I don't know how good the advice is in NL forums here (I assume you play NL) but the advice in the small stakes PLO forum is extremely bad so I wouldn't rely too much on forums to improve.
Doing database review is very useful if you do it correctly (I am not talking about just looking at hands you played and thinking about them).
Try to get a coach / find someone who is much better than you who will take you under their wing.
Learn to use software like solvers and study a ****load.
Don't "just keep grinding", it won't make you better. Westwd is a perfect example of someone giving bad advice on the forums.

How do I find a coach?
I currently don't have money to invest in a good coach.

The first solution is to try to get into softer games. If you play online try to not play on poker stars. If you play live, try to set up a rake free game with some friends.

Books are good for the mathematical foundations of the game, but they are not so good for population reads. Forums are basically worthless, especially free ones. You don't have to have any qualifications to post on a forum, so there is a lot more noise than signal. But you can find other material and get a read of the population from forums and some posters do offer insights.

Training sites are also good. I would rank the resources like this:

Books > Training sites > Forums

Lol @ using population reads in 2017
Get a job and save up if you can't afford a coach and want 2 get gud

You never mentioned if you thought you 'learned' something from the books. Did the strategies in the books match those you already use or understand?

How deep do you typically run in a tournament, always the same? What are some of your stats? Why no live cash? Typically live cash is easier than online games.

Are you betting or calling off your chips, or both?

You have studied, but what has changed in your play? Do you get sucked back into marginal calls by over-committing your stack or do you bleed by over-folding?

I think (obviously) we need more information about you to push one way or the other. GL

I've learned tons from my books.
Didn't even know what a cbet was before I read them.
Learned opening ranges, what kind of hands we want a high or low SPR with.
How to play vs specific villain typs.
How to play with different effective stack sizes.
Pot odds and implied odds.
What level 1-2-3-... thinking is, but I do feel like I'm stuck somewhere between 1 & 2. I do think about my hand strength in relative terms, but I don't actively try to put villains on a range most of the time.
Reasons for betting and why to use specific bet sizing.
How important position is.
And probably a ton more I'm forgetting to list here.


Online I typically play 15/12/4 something.
Live I probably play looser, especially from late position, where I'm calling way more often with decent drawing hands if there are a lot of limpers (often) or if someone else has already opened and I consider them straightforward players.

Most players at my games play really straightforward.
I'm just not adjusting to it properly.

I think I end up folding too much in spots I shouldn't be folding and calling too much in spots I shouldn't be calling.

Might have some bet sizing issues too that discourage people from calling my value bets. I usually bet 1/2 pot - pot size on drawy boards.
Betting larger when I actually have something.


I usually end up with 5-15BB since the tournaments are pretty turbo.
I wait for a decent hand then then shove.
I had icmizer for a week or so and ended up in the top 20% of push/shove range players, so I think I'm pretty decent at that.

I usually end up getting called by a monster or losing a flip or close to it.


This is really hard to answer, since I've started studying as soon as I started playing. I try to implement everything I learn into my game, but I do notice that sometimes I forget important stuff. (For example, looking to my left before I make a play in a live game.)




That's my issue. I don't know what I'm doing wrong, if I'm doing something wrong at all.

The thing that stands out the most to me from your post is that your playing cash and tournies. Concentrate on one for the time being. Regardless of the work you'v put in you must still have serious leaks. If they haven't been identified so far maybe coaching is the only way they will be.

This seems very tight, even for 9-max. You should probably also open up your 3-betting range, especially against late position openers.